Talk:Stoicidae

A Greek etymology?

This Latin nickname could feasibly derive from an Ancient Greek *Στωϊκίδης (*Stōïkídēs, literally “son of a Stoic”), from Στωϊκός (Stōïkós) + -ίδης (-ídēs). I've found a few people with the Modern Greek surname Στωϊκίδης (Stoïkídis), namely Ανδρέας Στωϊκίδης (Andréas Stoïkídis), Ἀπόστολος Στωϊκίδης (Apóstolos Stoïkídis), and Νικόλαος Στωϊκίδης (Nikólaos Stoïkídis); @Sarri.greek, would you be able to create an entry for that Greek surname, please? Fruitless Forest (talk) 00:48, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fruitless Forest Yes, it is based on greek. Yes, there is a modern surname el:Στωικίδης^{(a! the transcription is wrong)}. _1. The moderns ⟨ωι⟩ do not get an umlaut, because there is no ῳ (omega+hypogegrammene) in mod.greek. But people write their names in whatever way they like. _2. There is no Koine name Στωϊκίδης, i think, because Στωϊκός (Stōïkós) is an adjective = Stoic, so, there is no 'son of Stoic', and i cannot find a hellenistic figurative or jocular use either. _3. The modern surname's morphology is el: στωικ- + -ίδης. As for the etymology, I do not have a dictionary for surnames. The στωικ- part can be anything like: a nickname Stoic (odd, to take such a nickname), a byzantine or old surname (Στωικός), a placename (Στωικό, Στωικά), etc. The -ίδης = "son of", but in sunranames, it does not mean that there was a father called ...-ός and then, the son took the -ίδης suffix. I do not know how it works exactly.

Finally, I cannot understand these latin entries https://logeion.uchicago.edu/Stoicida https://logeion.uchicago.edu/Stoicidae, because we cannot see the text. If it is a personified something/someone, called Stoicida by Juvenalis, then it is just a made-up nickname, a coinage once-used by the writer? (Latin nonce terms) I do not know what -ida stands for (-ίς, ίδος, -ίδα accusative, in ancient greek? -idus, -a latin?) Does the text have only the plural Stoicidae? Then the singular would have been Stoicides (like Ἀτρείδης, plural Ἀτρεῖδαι, like Κρονίδης, plural Κρονίδαι.). is the -ida used by Juvenalis, or is it just an entry of a dictionary as an assumed singular? Thanks. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 11:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Χαῖρε ὦ Αἰκατερίνη· I understand the point about the redundancy in Modern Greek of the diaeresis/dialytika in ⟨ωϊ⟩ (an umlaut, although it looks the same, is something completely unrelated), but that's the way I found it spelt: Ανδρέας Στωϊκίδης, Ἀπόστολος Στωϊκίδης, Νικόλαος Στωϊκίδης, Νικ. Στωϊκίδης; I did find one instance of Ανδρέας Στωικίδης, but because it occurs in the same source as that of Ανδρέας Στωϊκίδης, I assume(d) that it's a typo. (Furthermore, if the diaeresis were merely an Atticist feature, one would expect Ἀνδρέας Στωϊκίδης, with the ψιλὸν πνεῦμα explicitly marked.) Whereas Στωϊκός is first an adjective, there is also a derived substantive (singular ὁ Στωϊκός or plural οἱ Στωϊκοί), but you're right that «ὁ Στωϊκός» as a proper name does seem weird. Του entry Βικιλεξικού is inconclusive, but it too supposes a derivation from -ίδης. Juvenal's word and the Modern Greek surname coincide, but I suspect they are not directly related.

I'm glad you prompted me to track down the Juvenal citation, because you were right to suspect that Lewis & Short on the one hand and Gaffiot on the other both erred in defining this word; it is a plural noun, not a (singular) proper noun. In the citation, Stoicidae governs trepidi (adjective) and fugerunt (verb), so, isolating those bits, we get "fugerunt trepidi…Stoicidae" (the would-be Stoics made off in confusion); that is conclusive. I have edited the entry accordingly. How do I go about moving the entry to the correct page title (Stoicidae)? BTW, Ancient Greek first-declension nouns in -ης, -ου are regularly Latinised -ēs, -ae or -a, -ae (AFAIK, genitive *-ū is almost never preserved). Fruitless Forest (talk) 14:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Great, @Fruitless Forest you can move it to Stoicidae by clicking button More > Move, but this puts a redirect on page Stoicida. Or do both?? I do not know who the administrators for Latin are Category:User la. Unfortunately, the administrators are not listed by their main work-language.

++ or add {{attn}}. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 15:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek, buttons for "More" or "Move" were nowhere to be seen, so I enacted your final suggestion.Fruitless Forest (talk) 16:35, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fruitless Forest at the entry page, look at top of page, right. I can see buttons: Read, Edit, History, (a star for watchlists), and Move & Searchbox. Some of these buttons, could be grouped under 'More'. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 17:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek, I have Read, Edit, History, ✰, QQ, and the search box. Fruitless Forest (talk) 18:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fruitless Forest i did not know that QQ I do not have it

Then, something about your 'preferences" A question at Information Desk then. Sorry, I do knot know there things. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 19:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek, "QQ" stands for "Quiet Quentin", a citation-finding tool. I learnt about it from Wiktionary:Quotations#Quotation gadgets. Fruitless Forest (talk) 20:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Buttons: @Fruitless Forest cf Wiktionary:Information_desk/2022/July#Looking_for_buttons ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 19:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Fruitless Forest (talk) 20:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fruitless Forest, try to get rid of that QQ gadget? ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 00:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fruitless Forest one more thing: try to make your screen very very wide (maybe More is hidden under something). ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 01:53, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek, I don't think the button's hidden, but I do think that the QQ button has replaced the “More ⌵” menu that's meant to be there, so turning off Quiet Quentin probably would have restored it. However, 98.170.164.88 told me about Special:MovePage/…, which I used successfully to move this page, so I call that a problem solved. Thanks for your help. Fruitless Forest (talk) 12:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)