Talk:buy and pay for

RFV discussion: April 2015–February 2016

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buy and pay for

Is this really a verb? SemperBlotto (talk) 14:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Well yeah, what else would it be? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

It is arguably an adjective (something I don't recall saying before), as the forms other than the putative past participle are very rarely used with the meaning "bribed" and can be readily interpreted from their components even when possible used in that sense.

To buy and pay for is a formulaic phrase in some contexts, in which the pay for component seems almost to be used as an intensifier, though that sense is clearly directly derived from the idea that once the payment has been accepted, the evidence that a sale was intended by both parties is complete. In the case of bribery, a quid pro quo is essential for a crime to be charged.

Usage such as "bought-and-paid-for testimony" is supportive of an adjective PoS as well. DCDuring TALK 17:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

"Bought and paid" can be used of sex, friendship, a public official or body of public officials, a public action (as a law), an election, testimony, a witness, biased news coverage, etc. This goes beyond bribery. It is sometimes used in the context of discussions of commoditization, in which it is also pejorative.

I'm not convinced that any of this makes a winning argument for inclusion. We have the appropriate sense at buy ("bribe"). DCDuring TALK 17:55, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm the one who put it in, and I admit a degree of ambivalence myself. I had entered "bought and paid for", which, in it's adjectival use as corrupted by money, seems a clear candidate for inclusion. When looking up supporting quotes, I found a number of them (such as the quote I put on the "buy and pay for" entry) were using it as a verb not as an adjective. All in the past tense, however. I was not sure what was the right way to go about entering this -- if someone has a better suggestion, I would welcome it. Kiwima (talk) 19:51, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Citations for forms of the verb other than the past participle/adjective form bought and paid are very hard to find at Google Books and News (archive). I haven't looked at Scholar or Usenet. DCDuring TALK 01:50, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

There's one citation of "buy and pay for" in the entry; here's another:

• 1897, Raymond L. Bridgeman, The Lobby, in The Bay State Monthly, page 155:

  […] and they are dominating millions of workers by legal powers and privileges which they buy and pay for.

- -sche (discuss) 01:16, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

The verb buy and pay for is rare and probably a back-formation from the adjective bought and paid for, but it does seem to be cited (the 1897, 1952 and 2012 citations). - -sche (discuss) 22:18, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

RFV-passed. - -sche (discuss) 20:02, 1 February 2016 (UTC)