Talk:they say

RFD discussion: November 2021–June 2022

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they say

Previously discussed at Wiktionary:Tea_room/2021/October#they_say. Sorry, but I don't see this as anything more than sense #3 at they, "People; some people; people in general; someone, excluding the speaker". You may as well have any verb. Indeed, "they say" is already one of the examples at they. Mihia (talk) 11:40, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

• Request translations. I agree with Mihia that the use of they here is nebulous. It is up to the reader/listener to determine or guess at the actual scope implied by the context and the speaker. That is not restricted to they; the scope of we, you, us, them, even he, she, it is not always clear. That being said, it is very common and it is quite plausible that people would look it up here. Perhaps translations can shed some light. If in some language the nebulous they meaning is clearly implied in some particular word that expresses "they say" then it may pass via WT:COALMINE. Cheers, Facts707 (talk) 01:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

How is "COALMINE" relevant? There is no "theysay". Or are you suggesting that "theysay" in a different language should justify "they say" in English via "COALMINE"? Gawd help us. Mihia (talk) 01:27, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

• Delete. The meaning of they in the phrase is ambiguous in line with the usual contextual ambiguity of they and other pronouns. An analogy might be "she said", with the meaning of she depending perhaps on someone earlier in the sentence, perhaps a domineering aunt, etc. — This unsigned comment was added by Conflatuman (talk • contribs) at 04:28, 22 November 2021 (UTC).

Abstain, I created it based on an earlier Tea Room discussion and lemmings, but I concede that the case for it is weak. - -sche (discuss) 21:46, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

@Mihia, Facts707, -sche I've added translations in case this changes anything for you. I think keeping this as a THUB (or even phrasebook?) is fine. Fytcha (talk) 14:59, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Do those translations apply uniquely to the verb "say", or are they instances of more general patterns? Mihia (talk) 17:51, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Both my translations are instances of more general patterns that express how things are usually done (German man + verb, Romanian se + verb). Fytcha (talk) 02:40, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I do not believe that parallel SoP translations are, or should be, reason to keep a phrase as a THUB. There would be no end to it. In my view, THUBs should be used only when translations in multiple languages are completely unlike word-for-word translations of the English. Mihia (talk) 09:44, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I think Chinese 据说 should count as a non-SOP translation. Thai ว่ากันว่า might be another. General Vicinity (talk) 23:06, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Keep although I can only find one idiomatic translation. The existence of lemmings confirms my belief that it's a set phrase that people might want to look up to see how it's expressed in other ways or other languages. Also lemmings prevent the "there would be no end to it" problem. --General Vicinity (talk) 18:24, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

ooh eken in Crimean Tatar looks interesting. --General Vicinity (talk) 18:33, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

OK es heißt looks good for the second one needed for a THUB. General Vicinity (talk) 18:47, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

@Fytcha, Mihia, -sche, Facts707 two idiomatic translations now. General Vicinity (talk) 11:06, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Could you please confirm that the Chinese translation is idiomatic? — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 18:27, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Fytcha: Yes, the Chinese translation is idiomatic. I would add others, like 聽說. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:39, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Thank you for confirming. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 18:40, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Keep. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 18:40, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

At least keep as a translation hub. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 17:57, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

RFD-kept. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 22:19, 18 June 2022 (UTC)