Caoimhin ceallach

Belated welcome

A personal welcome and thank-you, for the contributions you've made in Indo-European language entries & discussions! --Frigoris (talk) 19:29, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

@Frigoris: Thanks :) —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 20:32, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Creating reference templates

Caoimhin ceallach, please search to see if a reference template already exists before creating one. I've had to delete three of your duplicates. Thanks. -- Skiulinamo (talk) 06:56, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

beocere

Thanks for improving the Etymology at beocere. But I wonder if *cere meant "vessel-maker, keeper" rather than "basket, vessel". There are two Middle Low German related terms, immekar (“beehive”) and immeker (“beekeeper”) (where imme (< Proto-West Germanic *imbī) substitutes for "bee"). Here we see that kar "basket" (from *kaʀ) is distinct from ker "keeper" (from *kaʀi), which is of course derived from the former. Mind if I update it to point this out ? I may also go ahead and create *kaʀi (“vessel-maker”) as well. Leasnam (talk) 04:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Leasnam: That actually seems much better. I just couldn't find a source for *karjaz. What did you use? Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 11:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

I've not found anyone who has definitively stated it yet, but it seems apparent to me through simple comparative process. So since it's not (yet) sourced [ - and this could be because the term is PWG-only, as opposed to PGmc] I'll softly stipulate its possibility rather than definitively declare it. Leasnam (talk) 16:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

See WT:AINE

On the project here, we reconstruct all PIE terms with a leading vowel with a laryngeal before it. So, for example, **én would be an invaid reconstruction, demanding instead *h₁én. – Sokkjō 01:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sokkjo Yes I know you do and it's outdated as the reference I added clearly shows. Particles don't behave like roots. But the least we could do is to not hide the evidence from view, by showing that there is an alternative reconstruction. -Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 01:19, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

It's not "hiding", it's normalizing reconstructions. – Sokkjō 01:58, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sokkjo It's normalising a wrong reconstruction. We should at least show the better motivated one as an alternative form instead of presenting a false consensus. Please have a look at the reference (LIPP) and if you feel that I'm overlooking something, respond on substance citing your own linguistic sources, as per WT:RECONS#Verifiability —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 09:59, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Not wrong, perse, outmoded. As I wrote here, {{R:ine:LIPP}} is considered by most academics as crackpottery. Use with a grain of salt. – Sokkjō 10:08, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sokkjo I hadn't seen that. But all you did there is dismiss LIPP out of hand. Can you please elaborate? And cite sources. —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 10:23, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

IYKYK, but sure, see DOI:10.1515/zcph-2019-0009. – Sokkjō 11:42, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

@Sokkjo Can you be more specific? In that review the author expresses a reservation. That is by no means an invalidation of the entire work ("Ces remarques ne retirent rien à l’importance de l’ouvrage"). What do you base "considered by most academics as crackpottery" on? —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 11:59, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Please reply to the RFM because I don't really want to just have to keep quoting myself from there. – Sokkjō 23:21, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Template documentation subpages

In case you haven't already figured this out by now: the whole point of these is to be transcluded in the template page; Because this is always done with <noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude> in the template page, there's simply no way anything on the documentation subpage will ever end up in the entry.

When adding categories with {{refcat}} or the like, always surround them with <includeonly></includeonly> so the template will be categorized rather than the documentation subpage (after all, it's Category:Proto-Germanic reference templates, etc., not Category:Proto-Germanic reference template documentation pages). Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 23:21, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I always confuse those. I'll be more careful about them. Just to help me, what do "noinclude" and "includeonly" actually stand for? I find it counterintuitive that in order to "include" a section on another page I surround it with "noinclude"-tags. —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 06:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

You find it counterintuitive because it's wrong: on the documentation page you use <includeonly></includeonly> to include things on the template page. On the template page itself you use <noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude> to keep the documentation from being transcluded in the entry. The {{documentation}} is what does the transcluding, not the <noinclude></noinclude> tags. so:

• {{refcat|gem-pro}} on the documentation page transcludes the categories.
• <includeonly>{{refcat|gem-pro}}</includeonly> on the documentation page keeps {{refcat}} from adding the categories to the documentation page itself.
• {{documentation}} on the template page transcludes the documentation page on the template page
• <noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude> on the template page transcludes the documentation page on the template page but the tags prevent the documentation page from being transcluded in the entry.
• {{RQ:gem-pro:abcxyz}} in the entry transcludes the template in the entry

I hope that clears things up. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:18, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz, did you intentially remove the gem-pro and ine-pro tags from Template:R:non:AnEW/documentation and Template:R:gem:EDPG/documentation respectively? I was following what I perceived as a convention to add templates for etymological dictionaries of daughter languages to the mother language category. See for instance the other references included in Category:Proto-Germanic reference templates. Also aren't the non and gem tags respectively superfluous, as {{refcat}} adds them by default? —Caoimhin ceallach (talk) 22:13, 16 September 2024 (UTC)