Droigheann
Welcome
editThank you for your contribution so far, including correction of Czech pages with broken gender markup. Not sure why you are writing {{cs-noun|f-p}} instead of {{cs-noun|g=f-p}}. I am actually surprised the former works. So what about writing {{cs-noun|g=f-p}} instead, in keeping with the widespread practice in Czech entries to indicate gender with g=? --Dan Polansky (talk) 10:45, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
- Hmm, I just tried what would work and {f-p} did. Hasn't occurred to me to check the template; have done now and hopefully will remember to use the {g} from now on. Thanks for telling me, will be wiser next time. --Droigheann (talk) 20:56, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Prefixes
editThanks for that! :) Could you perhaps clarify do-, nade-, od-, roze-, and se-, too? - -sche (discuss) 16:49, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but I was ill and mostly offline. At least I can now say
Done ;-). --Droigheann (talk) 06:59, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Empty declension sections
editI would like to encourage you to avoid creating empty request declension sections in Czech entries. Some editors prefer such sections but they have not delivered any evidence to support the hypothesis that such sections increase the rate at which declensions are being filled.
In fact, in recent time, I saw an anonymous editor filling declension sections in Czech nouns. The editor did not need these empty sections to find such entries.
Just for your consideration. Your content contribution is highly appreciated. --Dan Polansky (talk) 08:12, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
- Hmm, you're right. AFAIK I've only added such sections rarely, when creating an entry by copypasting & editing the markup of another entry, but it's true that leaving there a request for declension despite knowing pretty well how to decline the word myself is bad form (and unhelpful to anybody). I'll try to remember to be more careful when creating entries this way. --Droigheann (talk) 18:50, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Braní mimochodem
editHello. May I ask what are your changes in the pronunciation section of the entry braní mimochodem (both the stress and the o/ɔ phoneme) based on? Thanks. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 08:03, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- On the way I hear it. The stress is admittedly disputable, if one pronounces the phrase on its own there's probably an equal stress on each word, but in a sentence it would tend to be stronger on the second word because one sort of slightly emphasizes it (otherwise there's no reason to use it at all).
- As regards the /o/ vs /ɔ/ difference, the linked Wikipedia's article claims that "The phonemes /o/ and /oː/ are sometimes transcribed /ɔ/ and /ɔː/. This transcription describes the pronunciation in Central Bohemia and Prague, which is more open. The standard pronunciation is something between [o(ː)] and [ɔ(ː)], i.e. mid back vowel." which I've always found dubious, in my experience no native Czech speaker pronounces short <o> as a close-mid back rounded vowel regardless of where s/he comes from, unless s/he wants to be theatrical, parodying somebody else, has a speech impediment &c.
- That being said, if you hear it differently feel free to revert me, at my age and with how rarely I listen to people these days I may be ready to 'correct' (from my POV) such comparatively minor differences in pronunciation, but not to fight over them. --Droigheann (talk) 16:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- Stress: I think that secondary stress in the Czech language is not a weaker stress found on some words than on others in a sentence. Secondary stress is the weaker one of two or more stresses within a longer word. Thus, the primary stress is usually on the first syllable and the secondary can be sometimes found on some of the other syllables of the same word. The problem is that the occurence of the secondary stress depends on such factors such as the speed of speech or how carefully the word is pronounced. It can be heard more often with slow and careful pronunciation or when reciting poetry, and tends to disappear during casual speech.
- As for /o/ vs /ɔ/, I think that I usually hear the first one. The reason may be that I live in Moravia and the difference can be region-based. It is really possible that the prevailing pronunciation is something in between, as you wrote. Since it is really dubious, I suggest keeping the current practice with /o/, changing the practice and rewriting all the pronunciations would need some really strong arguments. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 23:55, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- Upon consideration, you are probably right with the o's. Given that /o~ɔ/ in Czech are allophones, it's probably best to keep to the established custom, so I changed these back at the entry. After all, a learner has enough to struggle with concerning <ř>, there's no need to confuse him with inconsistent o's. But in my opinion, as long as we have an entry for a phrase, as opposed to a single word, the stresses should reflect the whole phrase and not each word on its own. Consider short prepositions: putting the stresses in e.g. na zdraví as /ˈna ˈzdɾaviː/ would surely give the reader a distorted idea about the way it's normally pronounced. --Droigheann (talk) 13:39, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree, it is definitely easier for learners in this way.
- As for na zdraví, I think is is something different. One syllable prepositions are usually pronounced together with the following word in Czech and for this reason they take over the stress from it. Thus the preposition na is stressed instead of zdraví. In fact the pronunciation can (or should?) be transcribed also without the gap as /ˈnazdɾaviː/ or /ˈna‿zdɾaviː/ It is discussed in detail for example at an article in Naše řeč. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:41, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- Upon consideration, you are probably right with the o's. Given that /o~ɔ/ in Czech are allophones, it's probably best to keep to the established custom, so I changed these back at the entry. After all, a learner has enough to struggle with concerning <ř>, there's no need to confuse him with inconsistent o's. But in my opinion, as long as we have an entry for a phrase, as opposed to a single word, the stresses should reflect the whole phrase and not each word on its own. Consider short prepositions: putting the stresses in e.g. na zdraví as /ˈna ˈzdɾaviː/ would surely give the reader a distorted idea about the way it's normally pronounced. --Droigheann (talk) 13:39, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)