Talk:उदक

@माधवपंडित I have found several more attestations on the web for the forms उदकाक, उदकाचेर, उदकाचो, उदकाचे, and उदकाची, but I can't strongly tell if they're simply Marathi words instead. DerekWinters (talk) 23:36, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

But there is this: 1 DerekWinters (talk) 23:40, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: I speak marathi as well but I've not seen the word उदक used in the language where पाणी is generally used. But these declined forms are pure Konkani as I've filled them from my own knowledge of spoken & written Konkani. Marathi declensions are somewhat similar in some cases. माधवपंडित (talk) 02:17, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

For instance the -आक (-āk) suffix for accusative does not exist in Marathi where the suffix is -आला (-ālā). Thus even if Marathi had the word "udak" (I've never heard it being used), the accusative would be उदकाला (udkālā). Genitive similarly would be उदकाचा (udkācā).

@माधवपंडित By the forms I gave, I meant without a conjoined द्क and a long ई on the feminine genitive. DerekWinters (talk) 03:18, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

@DerekWinters: Oh.. you mean the the schwa sound following द.. we usually say उद्काचे while speaking it and more importantly, the Konkani written in the Kannada script usually conjoins the two letters. In fact written Konkani in the Kannada form goes as far as to put a virama (್) at the end of almost every word because they do not have the default schwa. In any case, even if written उदकाचेर, it'll still be pronounced "udkacer". I'll just look into this, thanks for pointing out. माधवपंडित (talk) 05:04, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Might as well change it, the virama is pretty futile, it doesn't even conjoin those two letters :/ माधवपंडित (talk) 05:06, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I wasn't referring to the schwa, because it won't be pronounced, but instead the orthography. DerekWinters (talk) 05:32, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

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@माधवपंडित Is it feasible to make MOD:kok-translit or is Konkani too irregular in schwa dropping? —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 19:49, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora: Oh Konkani always drops the schwa. But still it'd be better not to bother: ओ is can be pronounced /o/ or /ô/. ज can also be either /z/ or /dj/; likewise च is mostly /ts/, at others /c/. माधवपंडित (talk) 00:54, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@माधवपंडित: Yeah, I noticed in the declension tables, and wondered if there were any rules governing that. Is it possible to make a template that has the declension paradigm in it already like {{sa-decl-noun-a-m}}? That would make it easier to make entries I reckon. —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 02:24, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@माधवपंडित: Could you clarify for me: the difficulties you are describing seem to be difficulties of transcription or pronunciation, not necessarily transliteration. Based on this description, it seems like it should be very easy to transliterate Konkani. —JohnC5 06:23, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@JohnC5:: This is true; unfortunately, the Devanagari script is just unable to accommodate some sounds of the Konkani language. I do not wish to insinuate that the Wiki is wrong, but the transliteration table in that wiki page seems to be very Marathi/Hindi-normative. This could be due to the prevalence of Marathi as a prestige dialect among educated Konkani speakers, leading to Marathi-ization of written Konkani. Just for instance, there are also times when the schwa following a letter (that is not the final letter of a word) is not really a schwa but a degree of /o/ but not a noticeable enough degree to be written as ओ (o), but this is irregular (if there's a rule, I'm unaware of it) so do you think we can programme this wiki to transliterate that? माधवपंडित (talk) 08:03, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora:: With the vowels mostly it's just the rule of thumb. च (ca) is pronounced /ts/ when associated with a masculine noun/adjective and /c/ otherwise. I'll attempt to make a {{kok-decl-noun-ô-m}}, ô stem masculine nouns as thus far the most numerous at wiktionary. माधवपंडित (talk) 03:14, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

I created the template based on {{kok-decl-noun}} but it wouldnt work so i tagged it for deletion. :| माधवपंडित (talk) 14:31, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@माधवपंडित: It's working now. —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 15:25, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora: Thanks. those braces look funny... माधवपंडित (talk) 16:06, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@माधवपंडित: Yeah, the brace-virama combination looks weird, but it works I guess. —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 16:18, 10 June 2017 (UTC)