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Talk:all over the place

Deletion debateEdit

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all over the place Edit

Preposition. 2 senses so far. I have been under the impression that we have been trying to avoid the tendentious use of the Preposition L3 header for prepositions that have no "objects". The available choices for header for the senses involved would seem to be Adverb (already present at the entry) or Prepositional phrase. DCDuring TALK 10:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

PP looks right. all appears to modify over. Is the idiomatic sense simply hyperbole? Pingku 14:03, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Though all is often a degree adverb, I think all over is well treated as both an adverb and a preposition. Further, *"over the place" does not seem to me to have an idiomatic meaning, whereas "all over the place" does (as some other dictionaries suggest. DCDuring TALK 15:29, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
It's an adverbial phrase that answers the question "where?", so it ought to be combined under Adverb. --EncycloPetey 14:38, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
I prefer the new Prep phrase header for some cases, but this one seems to merit the separate Adjective and Adverb headers. The Preposition header may have been intended to be the Prep phrase header. DCDuring TALK 15:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Also, it can be a predicate and is gradable so it can be considered an adjective too, especially in usage such as "His answers were all over the place.", in which the "where-ness" is usually strictly figurative. DCDuring TALK 15:33, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
I added "prepositional phrase" after the definition in the "Preposition" section. I don't think we need to say "Prepositional phrase" in the section header, since we don't say (AFAIK) "Adjectival phrase" or "Adverbial phrase" when phrases are used in those contexts. Facts707 18:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Comparative adverb? eg: He fired more all over the place than she did. Facts707 18:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Superlative adverb? eg: Fred fired the most all over the place of anyone there.. Although I haven't any examples of this in Google Books. Did find one adjectival usage of this though.Facts707 18:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
  1. I don't see how this can ever be a pure preposition. It does not seem to be able to take an "object". It is a complete prepositional phrase in itself. The one header that seems to me to be outright wrong is "Preposition".
  2. We have recently voted to allow the L3 header "Prepositional phrase". It is intended to be an alternative to Adjective and Adverb where there is no difference in senses (or inflection, ie, comparability) between the adjectival and adverbial uses of the phrase. If we have the headers "Adjective" and "Adverb", we should not have the header "Prepositional phrase".
  3. I haven't found comparative or superlative use of the adverb. Even the comparative use of the adjective seems a bit strained to me, though it seems to be attestable. I can't find attestable use of the superlative for adjectival use. DCDuring TALK 20:20, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
I agree after reading your explanation. It does have its own object. I now agree that the header "Prepositional phrase" is most appropriate. Facts707 18:17, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
P.S. Would be nice to have Template:en-prepositional phrase, Template:en-noun phrase, Template:en-phrasal verb. Facts707 18:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
In the interim, no harm and some good comes from {{infl|en}prepositional phrase|head=[[all over]] [[the]] [[place]]}}. This categorizes it properly, links to entries for the "subidiom" all over and the other constituents, and does not show the vacuous and rare comparative and superlative "forms". The desirability of last point is arguable, of course, but few minds are likely to be set back by not seeing the "forms". DCDuring TALK 21:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Also {{en-noun|sg=[[hot]] [[stuff]]|-}} handles nouns. We have just been adding Category:English phrasal verbs to the entry and using {{en-verb}} with "inf=" for phrasal verbs so that they appear directly in Category:English verbs. DCDuring TALK 21:36, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm convinced. I updated the entry as per your recommendation. all over the shop and all over the board seem to have done it that way as well. Feel free to change any others I may have done incorrectly. Thanks for the info, Facts707 10:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Deleted. Preposition section revised to Prepositional phrase. Additional senses added. DCDuring TALK 11:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

RFC discussion: June 2015–December 2017Edit

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for cleanup (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

I don't see the point of having similar definitions and examples under three categories: Adjective, Adverb and Prepositional Phrase. --Hekaheka (talk) 04:45, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Blame me. I had RfDed the adjective and adverb PoS sections 1 Sept, 2010 at the conclusion of the RfD discussion for the "Preposition" (not "Prepositional phrase") section. I did not institute the new RfDs on the RfD page because I thought the not-yet-removed previous RfD needed to stay a bit longer and I believed the headers interfered (which they do) meaningfully (which they don't) with each other. Liliana-60 removed the RfD tags a year later.
Though the desirability of removing the Adjective and Adverb sections is obvious to me, I think they need to be RfDed. DCDuring TALK 14:02, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
Do you think you have included in the Prepositional Phrase -section everything that is worth including, i.e. could the Adverb and Adjective sections just be deleted (after copying the translations, of course)? --Hekaheka (talk) 22:58, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
I just copied all translations from Adverb and Adjective sections to the Prepositional Phrase -section. --Hekaheka (talk) 23:08, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
I hate to do things out of process. DCDuring TALK 00:38, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
  • I have removed the massive duplication from this article. Mihia (talk) 22:05, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Return to "all over the place" page.