Talk:in lieu

Fixing this

Anyone interested in helping with fixing and deduplicating this entry? The discussion is from 2016. – Jberkel 11:11, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

How is this different from instead and instead of? Why exactly is this a duplicate? Edit: are there no instances of "in lieu" being used without being followed by "of"? 85.31.132.219 15:21, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

One instance of "in lieu" being used without being followed by "of" is when people work unpaid overtime and take those hours, at a later date, as time off in lieu. 2001:1C01:380E:5E00:20C2:EB1E:DB49:C3B8 10:08, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

RFM discussion: February 2016–April 2023

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

---

in lieu

I didn't find any use at COCA of this except in in lieu of (1,045) and (Canada, legal) pay in lieu (2). There was one use of in lieu thereof. The other seven instances included the name of a band, an incomplete spoken utterance, and similar.

I suspect that the translations belong at in lieu of or perhaps at fr.wikt. DCDuring TALK 04:15, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Move to in lieu of per nom. - -sche (discuss) 05:13, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Struck; my comment is superseded by this being found to be attested without of. - -sche (discuss) 23:13, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

There are hits at Google Books for in lieu appointment]. Note that not all of them actually contain the phrase: some have "... in lieu. Appointment...". The same is true of in lieu payment], though it seems to be more common with a hyphen. It may not be that common, but in lieu does seem to be used as a legal/accounting term without any form of "of". Chuck Entz (talk) 06:33, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I see. That would merit a reworking of the entry for in lieu, which looks to be limited to legal contexts. It seems that in lieu is often an abbreviation of in lieu of (something obvious from the context). In its prepositive attributive use "substitute" seems like a synonym or definition. DCDuring TALK 15:54, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

There's also a day off in lieu [1] although I've no idea whether this would be better treated by a separate entry or an additional sense ("substitute") at in lieu. --Droigheann (talk) 14:24, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

To me it seems that the uses that are not in lieu of are derived from use of in lieu of in a legal context including labor law. They all seems to have become completely conventionalized in meaning – therefore dictionary-worthy – though sometimes the meaning might turn out to be restricted to a specific context. I think this might work presented as a non-gloss definition with each of the most typical applications illustrated with a usage example and possible with a subsense. DCDuring TALK 17:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

The acronym TOIL stands for time off in lieu, which is linked in the definition as [[time off]] [[in lieu]] as if it were clear from those parts what it meant, but it isn't clear to me, so I think time off in lieu deserves to be an entry of its own. —Mahāgaja · talk 16:05, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

comp time (from compensatory + time, I suppose) is, I think, synonymous with time off in lieu. In my long-ago experience in NY civil service, possibly also elsewhere in US, it was paid time off to a salaried worker (not an hourly employee, who would get overtime pay) for having worked in excess of the standard workday or workweek. It apparently remains part of US labor law, especially for public-sector workers.

We should resolve the original matter before its dwell time here reaches a full decade. Could this be defined as "In place of something" with derived terms including the attestable collocations or with usage examples? DCDuring (talk) 18:17, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I don’t think day off in lieu or time off in lieu should be created. They are SoP, merely shortenings of “a day (or time) off in lieu of a day (or time) worked”. — Sgconlaw (talk) 19:31, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw: The reason I asked for time off in lieu to be created is that the first time I encountered it I genuinely didn't know what it meant, although I know what "time off" means and what "in lieu" means. I encountered "time off in lieu" and thought "in lieu of what?" I don't think it's immediately obvious that it means "time off for overtime worked in lieu of overtime pay". —Mahāgaja · talk 07:46, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Pending resolution of the question as to whether time off in lieu should be an entry, I have added material to TOIL. DCDuring (talk) 14:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I have altered the entry. Please inspect and revert or amend to taste. DCDuring (talk) 21:49, 24 April 2023 (UTC)