Talk:nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur

Auctually not especially in common law, in all other roman- contract. The question spreads up in my head that: Is the nem turpitudinem rule also including the fact that I could claim to the failure of the other party.

RFV discussion: July 2021–February 2022

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nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur

Searches like google books:"nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur" haec didn't bring up anything Latin for me. Not used in Latin, that is as much Latin as French footing (“jogging”), foot (“football”) (and the rest in Category:Pseudo-anglicisms by language) are English?

Wikipedia has the legal maxim as Nemo auditur propriam turpitudinem allegans. The phrase occurs in a Latin text here, but as a mention (between quotation marks) while citing a French-titled text; the origin of the legal rule, however, seems to be given as Paulus (Julius Paulus Prudentissimus?), lib. X. ad Sabinum (On Sabinus, Book X). But what does it really mean if we find this in Latin texts? The first occurrence may be a genuine use, but then is a pure sum of parts. Later Latin uses may be idiomatic, but then are the name given to a specific entity, in this case a legal rule. Neither meets our CFI.  --Lambiam 16:46, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

This is law Latin, and is a set phrase, translingual rather than strictly Latin. See, e.g.:

1. Supremo consiglio di giustizia Tesoro del foro toscano, o sia, Raccolta delle decisioni del Supremo consiglio, Vol. 13 (1823), p. 90: ...non potendosi dai Tribunali accogliere l'Istanze di coloro che allegano la violazione dei propri doveri come un mezzo di esimersi dal soddisfare alle contratte obbligazioni.Nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur.
2. Diogo Pereira Forjaz de Sampaio Pimentel, Livro segundo da parte primeira, tít. I-VIII, IX-XV (1866), p. 387: Nunca a malicia aproveita a quem a emprega, e sempre o erro desfaz o que se fez com elle; ou, como dizem as leis romanas: «Nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur... Non videntur, qui errant, consentire» (a).
3. Nikola Tintić, Radno i socijalno pravo: Radni odnosi (I) (1969), p. 689: Ako nije izričito drukčije određeno, vrijede opća načela: ex turpi causa non oritur actio; nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur; in pari turpitudine potior est conditio possidentis.
4. Roland Michael Beckmann, Nichtigkeit und Personenschutz (1998), p. 149: Keine Aufnahme der gemeinrechtlichen Regel nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur in die Nichtigkeitslehre Im österreichischen Recht basiert die.
5. E. Schrage, Unjust Enrichment and the Law of Contract (2001), p. 107: In this connection it is particularly interesting to what extent the maxims "nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur" and "in pari delicto potior est conditio defendentis" apply.
6. Hugh Beale, ‎Bénédicte Fauvarque-Cosson, ‎Jacobien Rutgers, Contract Law: Ius Commune Casebooks for the Common Law of Europe (2010), p. 1175: In France the courts invoke the principle nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur and in England the principle is that ex turpi causa non oritur actio...
7. Ildikó Basa, "Re-Codification of the Civil Code? Conception for Drafting the New Civil Code", Acta Juridica Hungarica (2005), p. 86: The general fundamental principle of nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur will be specified not only under the Introductory Provisions, but also in re invalidity, with the stipulation that the entity incurring the cause of nullity in an imputable manner may not refer to the invalidity of the contract.
8. Sarah Green, ‎Alan Bogg, Illegality after Patel v Mirza (2018), p. 361, n. 195: A comparative analysis of this maxim has been undertaken by H Niederländer, 'Nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur: Ein rechtsvergleichender Versuch' in Juristische Fakultät der Universität Freiburg (Schweiz) (ed), Ius et Lex: Festgabe zum 70. Geburtstag von Max Gutzwiller (Basel, Helbing & Lichtenhahn, 1959) 621.
9. Grzegorz Wolak, "O wydziedziczeniu z powodu uporczywego niedopełniania obowiązków rodzinnych względem spadkodawcy", Studia Prawnicze KUL (2020): Zgodnie z zasadą nemo turpitudinem suam allegans auditur ten, kto zawinił zerwanie więzów rodzinnych, nie może ze swej niegodziwości wywodzić korzystnych dla siebie skutków.

bd2412 T 21:17, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

law Latin: By the definition it's still Latin; that is, English with some phrases derived from Latin isn't law Latin at all (but law English?). (Though, the definition only mentions Old French and English - what's with terms of Germanic origin as in the Lex Salica or Lex Burgundionum?)

And none of the examples is Latin, they are Romance, Slavic, English, German. So, currently it's how it is with French foot (“football”) (and the rest in Category:Pseudo-anglicisms by language) which aren't classified as English. — This unsigned comment was added by 2003:de:372c:9562:58ab:ac16:52d9:d5d8 (talk).

That's precisely why I said it's translingual. There are cites in at least a half dozen languages, some in running text without italicization. bd2412 T 23:04, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

• Change to Translingual and close as cited. bd2412 T 04:11, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
  • Note: A translingual entry has since been made, and I have therefore deleted the contested Latin entry. bd2412 T 04:48, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Seems RFV-resolved This, that and the other (talk) 12:45, 25 February 2022 (UTC)