Template talk:el-decl-noun

Comment

Either add the definitive article on the title (declension of "ο" or "η" or "το") or remove it from linked decletion templates. The way it is now it says that genitive of "γιαγιά" is "της γιαγιάς" but this (of course) is not true. Genitive of "γιαγιά" is "γιαγιάς", genitive of "η γιαγιά" is "της γιαγιάς", genitive of "μια γιαγιά" is "μιας γιαγιάς".

(in Greek language)

word/expression	nominative	genitive
declension of "γιαγιά"	γιαγιά	γιαγιάς
declension of "η γιαγιά"	η γιαγιά	της γιαγιάς
declension of "μια γιαγιά"	μια γιαγιά	μιας γιαγιάς
declension of "χαρούμενη γιαγιά"	χαρούμενη γιαγιά	χαρούμενης γιαγιάς (της χαρούμενης της γιαγιάς)
declension of "η χαρούμενη γιαγιά"	η χαρούμενη γιαγιά	της χαρούμενης γιαγιάς (της χαρούμενης της γιαγιάς)

Thanks for the understanding. --Xoristzatziki 13:10, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

PS. Of course, if you add the definitive article in the title, so that declension continues to be different from declension of {{PAGENAME}}, we must inform the readers that other forms (without article or with indefinite article) still exist in Greek language and didn't "disappear" magically. Wikifriendly --Xoristzatziki 13:10, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Also, as you can see in adjective templates, there is a big difference if article is present or not (compare καλός, καλύτερος and ο καλύτερος)--Xoristzatziki (talk) 04:31, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Changing the format

Xoristzatziki has asked (also discussed at User talk:Xoristzatziki) for changes in the layout of Greek noun declension tables. There are a fair range of formats (see the 2008 examples [here]). Here are some current examples - German, Norwegian, Basque, Latin and Lithuanian.

I think I created the first of the series some 6 years ago and can't remember why the definite article was included. I think that Xoristzatziki is right - articles should be separated from noun forms. Should I investigate following the format used for German entry Wort. — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 05:19, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

IMHO if something has to be present (like definite and/or indefinite article) it is better to be enclosed in parentheses. As a (small) "purist" I prefer declension table to present declension of "{{PAGENAME}}" and not declension of "something {{PAGENAME}}". But the decision is up to the rest of the users, especially the en-N + el-0 (or el-1 or el-2) users, since this is a non-greek wiktionary:-).--Xoristzatziki (talk) 05:54, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't think articles are necessary. There is of course such an old school habit in Greece; children learn to inflect nouns with the definite article. I don't see, though, any good reason for that. Nouns appear in speech with or without definite or indefinite articles. The omission of the article here is more convenient for two reasons: (a) there are some masculine and feminine nouns that can share the same declension template (eg οδός and τροχός) (b) this way we can avoid the problem of the final ν in the definite articles τον, την. --flyax (talk) 10:41, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I also prefer inflection tables without the article, for the reasons Flyax stated. Their inclusion seems to me like a lot of noise with little useful information. It is my firm intention to one day get rid of all the Ancient Greek tables with articles that Gilgamesh created so long ago. I am rather partial to the scheme used by the Ancient Greek templates. I am, of course, quite biased, as I am the one who created them. However, I think there is an objective aesthetic gain in unifying the formats, seeing as the two languages so often share the same page. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 11:09, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

That seems pretty unanimous - I'll carry on with it - — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 04:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

done — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 15:27, 7 May 2012 (UTC)