User talk:-sche/English terms of Native American origin

If you're looking for more, I recommend that you take a look at Category:English terms derived from Taino and Category:English terms derived from Old Tupi. Cheers --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:13, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm currently trawling all our categories, and adding words we're missing, too. When I finish (or get tired of it, lol), I'll copy the list into the Appendix: namespace. - -sche (discuss) 19:32, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

I find it interesting that most of the loans start with /k/ ("c"), /m/, /p/, /s/, /t/, or /w/, i.e., all voiceless consonants, except /m/ and /w/ which English lacks a voiceless variant (/m̥/) of and frequently fails to distinguish from /ʍ/, respectively. The few /tʃ/ ("ch") words also fit that pattern. Of course, I haven't looked at many non-Algic words yet. - -sche (discuss) 02:02, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm. I really don't know how to tell whether or not that's a coincidence. By the way, you've inspired me to find some more for your list. Here's one: (deprecated template usage) araucaria - it needs an English section, and I'm willing to bet that it comes from an Araucanian language, given the superficial similarity. --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 02:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

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Does Tiktaalik count? --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 15:10, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Sure, especially because google books:"tiktaaliks" and google books:"a tiktaalik" turn up a few examples where it's being inflected as an English word. I wonder why {{etyl|foobar|mul}} doesn't categorise... - -sche (discuss) 17:16, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Here's another one (yes, it's a common noun): (deprecated template usage) Moqui marble. --Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:32, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

What about (deprecated template usage) jabiru? And does (deprecated template usage) Zuniceratops count? —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 19:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Jabiru is great! You wouldn't happen to know what (if any) orthography we use for Tupi words, would you? If not, perhaps Ungoliant can help. Since we haven't got an entry for it yet and Wikipedia says nothing about the etymology, I'll have to look into Zuniceratops. - -sche (discuss) 20:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm considering going through some of my books to look for more of these overlooked ones. I've never studied Tupi, so I haven't a clue there. I do remember that Zuniceratops comes from (deprecated template usage) Zuni + (deprecated template usage) ceratopsian ("horned face"; Ancient Greek) in the usual macaronic fashion. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 05:59, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Off the top of my head, I can also think of (deprecated template usage) Futalognkosaurus (I'm really into dinosaurs!) and (deprecated template usage) araucaria again. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:06, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Futalognkosaurus, that's an appropriate name—given that it's such a large dinosaur.

I've added English sections to araucaria and Araucaria, and indicated their derivation from the placename Arauco, but I couldn't readily find info on the origin of the placename, if it is Native American.

I've been somewhat pre-occupied with various High- and Low- Germanic issues lately; feel free to add terms to the lists yourself.

My suggestion is that given names, last names, placenames and tribe names should be in a separate set of lists so that they don't swamp the common nouns; I've just set up stubs to encourage / make it easier for people to follow that format. - -sche (discuss) 00:56, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, I guess the dinosaurs might be pushing it a little... if I find egregious common noun offenders I'll add them. Do you know if (deprecated template usage) redskin is a calque, by any chance? As for the Germanic business, all I can do to help there is add Yiddish descendants to PGmc. (which can be helpful when trying to reconstruct MHG, although modern Hochdeutsch tends to be more helpful), but if you have a specific group or list of reconstructions that could especially use fuller lists, I'd be glad to pitch in. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

My inclination is to include dinosaur names (and taxonomic names) as common nouns if there are Google Books hits showing them uncapitalised or pluralised. If there aren't any such hits, I'd still like to list them, it's a question of where. I guess it'd make more sense to put them in the "common noun" (really: "non–place/personal/tribe-name") lists, since that's where things like tiktaaliks, and for that matter all the other animal and plant names, already are.

To clarify my comment about lists: I'm pre-occupied with Germanic, so I'm not devoting as much time to the lists of Native American words, but you should feel free to add things you find to them.

Re "redskin": a large number of Native American autonyms, from unrelated language families throughout North America, signify either "(real) people" or "intelligible speakers". Other autonyms and exonyms are descriptive ("people of the flint place", "they build a longhouse", "they eat bark"), but "red skin" seems more like a European appellation. Offhand, the only reference to skin colour in a Native American name I can think of is the placename (deprecated template usage) Nacajuca, from nacatl (“face”) + xoxoctic, xuxuctic (“green, discoloured”), so called because malaria plagued its inhabitants. - -sche (discuss) 05:24, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Re taxa: I guess so. Perhaps DCDuring would be of use? Re lists: Of course I understand you, I'm a native English speaker. I'm just trying to help out everywhere. Re redskin: Not surprising, but thanks for the research. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 05:34, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Subst?

Could you subst all the language codes that appear on this page, so that they can be orphaned and deleted? —CodeCat 19:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll etyl-ify them, sure. Apparently I forgot about this page when I was switching over the other appendices yesterday. - -sche (discuss) 23:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)