Dimboukas

Ancient Greek

Please do not eliminate Ancient Greek entries on Wiktionary, or replace valid etymologies from Ancient Greek with incorrect etymologies from Modern Greek. Doing so is vandalism, and will result in a block. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:30, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Dear EncycloPetey, you are very severe with no reason. Provide me please with some examples of what you mean. I am doing the best for Wiktionary and my knowledge of Greek is deep enough so that I can distinguish when an entry is simply 'Greek', applying to the whole spectrum of the language, or just 'Ancient Greek'. I have never been a vandal. Dimboukas (talk) 20:31, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I imagine your problem was in the entry avis. The greek word ἀετός, for example, is said to be Greek not merely Ancient Greek.Dimboukas (talk) 20:37, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) That is one example of the problem. In changing the entry, you made the word avis (found in Classical LAtin) a descendant of a Modern Greek word. This is historically impossible. Likewise, you obliterated an Ancient Greek entry for πληγή by replacing it with a Modern Greek entry, but left all the Ancient Greek templates and information in place. This is not how Greek is done on Wiktionary. Knowing Greek is great, but you must also know Wiktionary. On Wiktionary, Greek (code:el) and Ancient Greek (code:grc) are treated separately. You should see Wiktionary:About Greek and Wiktionary:About Ancient Greek. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:25, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

If I may, I'd like to step in here and offer some explanation, as one of the primary Ancient Greek editors here on Wiktionary. The first thing you need to understand is that when we say "Greek", that doesn't mean all Greek, it means modern Greek, i.e. from 1453 onwards. We have no term which covers the entire language collectively. The reason your edit to avis was incorrect was because Latin, as an ancient language, should have ancient cognates, such as Ancient Greek and Sanskrit (with the one exception of English). A modern word might link to Greek αετός (aetós). Your edits to plague were incorrect (and have been reverted) because, while πληγή (plēgḗ) probably is a cognate to English plague, it goes all the way back to Proto-Indo-European, which is a great deal more speculative than the rest of the listed cognates. I hope that answers your questions, and please feel free to ask me any more which you might have. However, I would like to offer one piece of advice. Be receptive to critiques from people here. Some of EncycloPetey's remarks might seem confusing, but he's been here a long time, knows a lot about the project, and had good reasons for what he said. Cheers. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:26, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Guys, I am for more than five years in Wikipedia/Wiktionary etc. and I know how these work. First of all EncycloPetey does not seem to understand that avis is neither a descendant of αἐτός nor of वि nor of any other language, ancient or modern rather than of PIE. Those are just cognates. So by changing Ancient Greek to Greek I did not imply that avis is a descendant of a modern Greek word.

Then take a look at the entry plaga; I find no reason why the Greek cognate is 'Ancient Greek' and not simply 'Greek' especially when this word is unchanged. Since the Greek language is thought to be a whole, when there is no difference in spelling between the earliest attested and modern word, cognates are simply given in Greek. Take for example occasions when there are English cognates; when there is an English cognate in Middle English or Old English whose spelling/meaning etc. has changed, we write Middle English or Old English, otherwise we simply write English. So we limit the period during which the word was in use. Ἀετός and πληγή were and still are in use. My proposal is to write Ancient Greek in cases where the ancient Greek word is no longer used. For example in humus, I would never change χθών from Ancient Greek to Greek as the word has fallen into disuse.Dimboukas (talk) 23:06, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

But that is our point. What you have been doing would be a major change to Greek entries on Wiktionary. Such a change should not be enacted on a few entries by a lone editor acting against established consensus and policy. If you want to see such a radical change in Greek, as you suggest, you need to propose it first and get a community consensus. This is highly unlikely, however, as the ISO language codes do not fit with your suggestion.

Cognates for Latin entries are taken preferentially from languages contemporary with Classical Latin over modern languages, whenever possible. Thus, an Ancient Greek cognate is preferred to a modern Greek cognate. And no, Old English and Middle English have separate ISO codes, so "English" here means Modern English, and the Old and Middle stages of the language get separate treatments.

Waving aound a claim of working here for five years is not upheld by the fact that you made no edits here prior to 2010. I see that you have logged fewer than 100 edits prior to the start of 2012, which does not demonstrate familiarity with Wiktionary. You may understand the basic principles of a wiki through time on Wikipedia, but the length of time you've edited over there is completely irrelevant. Wikipedia is a separate project with different goals, different content, different format, different editors, different policies, etc (WT:WINW). The underlying mechanics may be the same, but little else is. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:54, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Ancient Greek descendant of *ḱad-

Hello,

Can you please add the Ancient Greek descendant of Template:termx, it is something like "kesovto" and reduplicative?

Thanks!

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 08:59, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I am afraid I can't find any descendant of *ḱad- in Greek. Are you sure we are looking for the same PIE root with the meaning "to fall"? Dimboukas (talk) 00:44, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I think there is an Ancient Greek word, whose past participle is also "kekasovto", the change of "d" to "s" is ok for Ancient Greek of "*ḱad-" only reduplicative verbs as Latin "cecidi", Sanskrit "ससाद (sasada)" descended.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 10:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Greek common gender nouns

If you have a view on how the headword line of "masculine/feminine" Greek nouns should indicate gender please go to Template talk:el-noun#Common gender nouns. — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 05:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Σαπφώ

Hello,

here are texts of Σαπφώ, could you help me and write out nouns that are of the second declension and identify their case? I ask, cuz I'm planning to make a second declension table for Lesbian Greek.

Do you think you can do that, maybe just some?

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 19:59, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Excuse me, that has been solved! [This template] can be used for Aeolic Greek second declension nouns.

Greetings HeliosX (talk) 04:19, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Song translation

Hi,

today I actually translated a song of Evanescence from English into Ancient Greek, could you help me by checking up on the translation, as a matter of fact? That would be very kind and nice of you!

Solitude:

How many times have you told me you love her or him?

As many times as I wanted to tell you the truth

How long have I stood here beside you?

I lived through you, you looked through me

Ooo, solitude

Still with me is only you

Ooo, solitude

I can't stay away from you

How many times have I done this to myself?

How long will it take before I see?

When will this hole in my heart be mended?

Who now is left alone but me?

Ooo, solitude

Forever me and forever you

Ooo, solitude

Only you, only true

Everyone leaves me stranded

Forgotten, abandoned

Left behind

I can't stay her another night

Your secret admirer, who could it be?

Can't you you see all along it was me?

How can you be so blind as to see right through me?

Solitude

Still with me is only you

Ooo, solitude

I can't stay away from you

Solitude

Forever me and forever you

Ooo, solitude

Only you, only true

Ἐρημία:

Ποσάκις μοι ἔλεγες σ’αὐτήν ἀγαπάειν

Ὅταν σοι λέγειν τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἐβουλόμην

Ποῖ πλησίον σου ἐνθάδε ἵστην

Διά σου ἔζων, διά μου ἐσκέπτου

Ὦ ἐρημία

Ἔτι σύν ἐμοί ἔνδικος σύ εἶ

Ὦ ἐρημία

Μακρῶς σου μένειν μοι οὐκ ἐξέστιν

Ποσάκις ταῦτα μοι ἔπραττον

Ποῖ ἐπιμενέει ἔμπροσθεν ὄψομαι

Ὅτε ὁ γωλεός ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ μου ἰαθήσεται

Τὶς νῦν μόνη ἐστίν ἔξω μου

Ὦ ἐρημία

Αἰεί ἐγώ, αἰεί σύ

Ὦ ἐρημία

Ἔνδικος σύ, ἔνδικος ἀληθής

Πάντες με λείπουσι ἐπικέλθεισαν

Λελάστμενην, ἐκλελειμμένην

Ἐγκαταλελειμμένην

Ἡ ἐραστρία σου μυστική, τὶς εἶναι δυνάμει

Ὦ, ὁράειν σοι οὐκ ἐξέστι ὅτι αὐτή ἐγώ αἰεί ἦν

Ὡς τοσοῦτος τυφλός εἶναι δυνάμεις ὡς ὀψόμενος διά μου

Ερημία

Ἔτι σύν ἐμοί ἔνδικος σύ εἶ

Ὦ ἐρημία

Μακρῶς σου μένειν μοι οὐκ ἐξέστιν

Ερημία

Αἰεί ἐγώ, αἰεί σύ

Ὦ ἐρημία

Ἔνδικος σύ, ἔνδικος ἀληθής

Regards HeliosX (talk) 20:16, 6 February 2015 (UTC)