Hovsepig

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Vahag (talk) 07:08, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

-թյուն

I am thinking about declaring the colloquial pronunciation of this suffix as the standard one. No one uses the normative [utʰjun] except for Paruyr Hayrikyan and the Catholicos. But I am not sure about the IPA. Is it [ut͡sʰjun] in EA and [ut͡ʃʰun] in WA? --Vahag (talk) 09:23, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: That’s a nice idea. The everyday WA would be [ut͡ʃʰjun] for me. I think I do hear some pretentious people though use WA [-utjun]. I’ll ask around. I think you’re right about the EA. Hovsepig (talk)

@Vahagn Petrosyan: apparently people in Istanbul still uses [utjun] while the diaspora uses [ut͡ʃʰjun] Hovsepig (talk) 14:53, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Now I want to get rid of optional [ə] before [sʃz][ptkbdɡ] in Eastern Armenian. It is too prescriptive and fake. Do you have any comments? Vahag (talk) 20:00, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

I think that makes sense. The Dum-Tragut grammar and other soviet grammars do state that the change from [əsCV] to [sCV] has become the norm. So yeah, kill the rule. After you do that, I suggest you go through the list of word-initial sCC clusters just to make sure they sound fine without the initial schwa; like maybe ստրուկ prefers սըտրուկ over [stɾuk]. you can check via https://github.com/CUNY-CL/wikipron/blob/master/data/scrape/tsv/arm_armn_e_narrow_filtered.tsv as an excel sheet or something Hovsepig (talk) 20:04, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Done. Vahag (talk) 20:47, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Expert opinion required

Hello, I would like to invite you to a discussion about a dispute between me and Vahagn Petrosyan, who has already commented on your discussion page. Since you are an Armenian linguist, your assessment of my edits and Vahagn's rollbacks will be of value. Sorry for bothering you, and best regards. GareginRA (talk) 18:11, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

@GareginRA: It seems that there’s been a lot of fights, based on the URL that you sent. Could you email me the specific things that you and Vahagn are disagreeing about (hossep.dolatian@alumni.stonybrook.edu)? I’m having trouble keeping track of exactly what is the contentious issue and why. My suspicion is that there’s some disconnect in terminology. Hovsepig (talk) 18:29, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

I can send you the particular aspects we disagree on for my own interest, but that would not affect the suspected privilege abuse that has taken place specifically in the Armenian part of this website, except for the fact that I may have another reference. But we can start with that. I will write you within couple days. GareginRA (talk) 19:10, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

The name "Plethon" in Armenian

(Also @Vahagn Petrosyan) How could the name "Plethon" be in Armenian written?

Somebody said at the Hayeren forum of Reddit, that it could be written as Պլեթոն (Pletʻon) for Classical and Eastern Armenian and as Փլեթոն (Pʻletʻon) for Western Armenian.

What do you think?

Thanks for reading this message. Apisite (talk) 01:00, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Apisite: well if it's an ancient pre-modern word, then the Classical option would be shared across the modern lects. For example, the name Plato (the man) is Պլատոն or Պղատոն. So I would think the shared form for Plethon (whoever this historical Greek man is) is Պլեթոն or Պղեթոն. In general, an ancient foreign L becomes Ղ in Armenian, like Alexandria is variably Ալեքսանդրիա or Աղեքսանդրիա based on Wikipedia results. Hovsepig (talk) 01:06, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Apisite: you cannot add stuff to Wiktionary based on people's opinion on how something "could be written in Armenian". The translation must be attestable per WT:CFI. I could barely scrape three attestations for Պլեթոն (Pletʻon), which means it passes CFI, but please don't add translations without first finding attestations. Vahag (talk) 08:14, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@GareginRA What do you think? --Apisite (talk) 02:47, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Apisite If you want it to sound closest to the modern Greek version it would be Պլիթոն, otherwise I don't know. GareginRA (talk) 03:35, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

@Apisite In addition to my previous answer. Personally, I would go with Պլեթոն, since it gives one a good idea of how it is written in Greek, notwithstanding that pronunciations might differ. GareginRA (talk) 03:49, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

hyw-noun-ու-ներ-inf

բարեւ ձեզ, Template:hyw-noun-ու-ներ-inf isn't working properly. it says "bug" for most cases. User:VahagnPetrosyan might be interested as well. 2600:1011:A11C:1862:43C1:F6E1:D3CE:F2A7 09:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I think I fixed it. But it may take a day for the fixes to show -- such as for the word թողուլ (I'm surprised you know how to conjugate that verb, I don't because it's too obsolete for my community). Hovsepig (talk) 16:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

i know a young armenian in romania who uses it, so it's not out of use everywhere. other -ուլ verbs like զբօսնուլ and զարթնուլ are less-used (these both have aorists as զբօսայ and զարթեայ respectively; this conjugation is awful and the template needs to be edited further to handle it). Also, the declension table now just has bare letters with no root. 2600:1011:A11C:1862:43C1:F6E1:D3CE:F2A7 19:09, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Romania: cool. Are you using the paradigm from Boyacioglu 2010? (It's online here a Class 8)

hello, im the ip. i hadn't seen this before today, what a nice and useful resource. thanks! i learned the paradigm from some books, ranging from 19th century to modern, that i read over the past few years. RagingPichu (talk) 00:14, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

@RagingPichu: oh cool. If you have any issues with figuring out how to do the hyw-conj-ուլ template, feel free to ask me via email Hovsepig (talk) 00:24, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Letters: yup, give it a day. Basically the template would only work with ել իլ ալ verbs, so I had to include a category for ուլ. Hovsepig (talk) 19:18, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Are you sure your Romanian friend isn't imitating Old Armenian? Acharyan reports that -ուլ is dead everywhere and is only used by Grabarizing posers at St. Lazarus. Vahag (talk) 20:08, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Hmm, I do know of one person in Boston who said his Bolsahay parents still used թողուլ. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's these tiny pockets (= individual houses) in the world who still do it. Hovsepig (talk) 20:10, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

hi, im the ip from before. i will say that that romanian armenian is not very literate in armenian and speaks it mostly at home. his parents i don't know, but they're probably very literate since they use թողուլ. also, since this form is archaic for some, there should probably be a synonym term there, but i don't speak western armenian; i can read it well, and i can type in it to others with little problem, but every author ever is very literate, so i don't use the slangy stuff like կոր very much. RagingPichu (talk) 00:14, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

i can't understand this site. @Vahagn Petrosyan 2600:1011:A11C:1862:43C1:F6E1:D3CE:F2A7 09:06, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

No one can, dear IP. It is very complicated. Start with baby steps and don't make inflection templates yet. Vahag (talk) 14:51, 29 November 2022 (UTC)