YngNghymru

Welsh templates

There is a template for {{cy-noun}} already. Does it do everything you need it to? --EncycloPetey 21:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Let's try one template at a time :) If the {{cy-noun}} is fine, then have a look at the existing {{cy-verb}}. What should it have? What do Welsh dictionaries usually give as information? Or is the template fine as it is? Note: I soon may be going off-line for a while to eat. --EncycloPetey 21:51, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

The conjugation tables are generated separately. How about we first make sure the inflection line templates (that's what we call the heading line templates) all work for the major parts of speech? Then, I can help you get started with the more complicated inflection tables. There isn't a template "cy-adj" yet. I assume some adjectives will have a comparative, superlative, and equative, but that others will be "not comparable". I also assume that some adjectives that are comparabel may be missing one or more forms. Is this a complete enough description of what the adjective template needs to handle, or are there other situations. Please give it some thought, and provide me with a short list of adjectives as examples for each situation. If the template is as simple as I think, then I could write it later today. --EncycloPetey 22:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

OK. Do Welsh adjectives have gender-specific forms that we need to worry about? --EncycloPetey 22:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

No, we probably shouldn't try to put the mutation forms on the inflection line as well. That can be handled by the inflection tables. I only ask about feminine forms because I came across a couple of examples in Category:Welsh adjectives, such as melyn, but if these are the result of mutation then we shouldn't worry about having that on the inflection line. --EncycloPetey 00:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Just checking, but did you really mean that the equative of gogleddol is cyn ogleddol, or that that a typo? --EncycloPetey 18:32, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I've got a working {{cy-adj}}, but I'd like to know: what is the plural of ffrengig? --EncycloPetey 19:39, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

OK. I'm going to write up documentation for the template now. Hopefully no major new situations will arise... --EncycloPetey 19:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, any form can be explicitly specified in the template. If you give me the forms for da, I'll include it and galed as examples in the doco. --EncycloPetey 20:03, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

And the plural for da? I did not include a feminine option, since they seem to be so rare and including the item would add server strain to the template. When there are feminine forms, they could be specified in an Inflection section within the entry. --EncycloPetey 20:14, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean that the plural is identical to the singular, that the plural is rare, or that it is not used with plural nouns? --EncycloPetey 20:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

The documentation for {{cy-adj}} is now written. I've added a stem-changing option, based on caled. --EncycloPetey 21:03, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

No, the {{cy-noun}} template just needs to be modified to support uncountable / no plural. Which does Welsh have? The term "uncountable" in English means explicitly that not only is there not a plural form, but the noun cannot be used with numbers. That is, you don't say "five sand(s)", "three dirt(s)", etc. When you ask about uncountability of Welsh nouns, is this what you mean, or simply that some nouns do not have a distinct plural form (like English deer), or that they do not have a plural meaning? --EncycloPetey 21:14, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... it looks as though the {{cy-noun}} template will need some restructuring, and all the calls to the template (fortunately only 70 or so) will have to be checked afterwards. Some of the coding is a bit antiquated. --EncycloPetey 21:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

When there are separate masculine and feminine forms of a noun, how this is handled varies by language. In English and Latin, the other gender is given under Related terms. Some languages (Italian I think does this) includes the feminne form in the inflection line. It could be included as an option. --EncycloPetey 21:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

On second thought, that makes the code really messy for what must be a minority of Welsh nouns. I think the Related terms section, or a Usage notes mention, would be a better option. The Italian useages like maestro aren't coded in the template either. --EncycloPetey 21:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I've added a gender feature for adjectives (which was not too hard to do). I've used it on gwen. It doesn't specify the alternative gender form, but does include the gender in a better location in the inflection line. --EncycloPetey 22:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't delete from my talk page (I archive from time to time), but you are welcome to archive/delete your own user talk page in whatever fashion suits you. --EncycloPetey 22:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I know a little about what happens with prepositions, but only a little. I wouldn't know anything at all about Welsh if I hadn't had a good friend who got her doctorate in Welsh linguistics. She studied the development of prepositions as recorded in medieval Welsh legal documents. Let me clean up the noun template today. If you can assemble several preposition examples, then tomorrow I may have time to suggest an approach for handling them. The information may be too complex for the inflection line. --EncycloPetey 22:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Babel

The Template:User cy-N now exists, if that's you... Ƿidsiþ 17:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• OK, Template:User cy-4 also now exists! Ƿidsiþ 17:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Welsh noun template

Would you please check the documentation for {{cy-noun}}, and particularly look over the examples to make sure they correctly represent the situations they are intended to demonstrate? If there is a problem, please suggest an alternative. I have made corrections to all old entries for Welsh noun that called {{cy-noun}}, to make sure they have the correct syntax. --EncycloPetey 01:11, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that {{cy-noun}} is only used for common nouns, not for proper nouns. I am going to make a {{cy-proper noun}} right now (it's extremely easy, since it only needs the gender). --EncycloPetey 18:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

2 style points

Let me say that it's so encouraging to finally see someone working on the Welsh entries seriously. However, I've noticed two ways in which your edits depart from our style standards. I've made example corrections, linking and describing these below so you can see what they are:

1. In this edit, please note the definition line must always start with a hash (#), and that the translation should be linked.
2. In this edit, please note that the inflection line template should never have an asterisk (*) in front of it.

--EncycloPetey 19:46, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

No, it just means you're still new. Even some of us veterans make mistakes. --EncycloPetey 20:12, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

And don't forget that you can use stem= in {{cy-adj}}, like this. --EncycloPetey 20:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

gẃraidd‎

If this is a bad page name, please mark it with {{delete}}, so that it is removed from Wiktionary. If you are questioning the validity of an entry, then you can add {{rfv}} to the top of the page to start a discussion. In the latter case, this gives other editors a chance to look around to verify the entry. --EncycloPetey 21:01, 7 January 2009 (UTC)