Talk:若漢
Pronunciation
edit@LlywelynII, do you have any sources for the pronunciation? 若 is rarely pronounced as rě in Mandarin (or je5 in Cantonese). In the Catholic forms 若望 or 若翰, it is read as ruò / joek6. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 21:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
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Seems to be restricted to 陸若漢 (João Rodrigues Tçuzu). — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:39, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- Which still leaves it as a rare transcription of the name. I'm fine with adding a tag, but there's no reason to remove the entry or to force the Wikipedia article to link to the meaningless separate characters. — LlywelynII 08:06, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- If it's only used in one person's name, I'm not sure if it would pass the "independence" criterion under attestation. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 13:17, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- Hmm, that's a thorny question. Books by three different authors all referring to "Saint-Brieuc" would attest that placename, even though they would all be referring to the same town. But of course "Saint-Brieuc" should not be defined as "any town" but rather as the specific commune in Côtes-d'Armor in Brittany, so if "若漢" is only used to translate one specific João, then maybe it should not be defined as "Alternative form of 約翰: John, Johan, João, &c.", but rather as a transcription of the name of that specific João ... if it is sometimes used (even to refer to that particular João) without being next to "陸".
However, if it is common for different Johns to have different transcriptions of their names (if there are a large number of transcriptions), then I would want more input from Chinese speakers on whether it is sensible to regard the ones that are used of only one particular John or another as independent and includable.
And if "若漢" only occurs in the compound "陸若漢", then it could be argued that the individual parts of the compound don't deserve an entry because they are not attested (with any relevant meaning) outside of it, and the compound as a whole is excluded by the rule that "No individual person should be listed as a sense in any entry whose page title includes both a given name or diminutive and a family name or patronymic".
Would we include an English first name if only one person had it? I suppose we probably wouldn't, and so shouldn't include this, either... - -sche (discuss) 05:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
- Hmm, that's a thorny question. Books by three different authors all referring to "Saint-Brieuc" would attest that placename, even though they would all be referring to the same town. But of course "Saint-Brieuc" should not be defined as "any town" but rather as the specific commune in Côtes-d'Armor in Brittany, so if "若漢" is only used to translate one specific João, then maybe it should not be defined as "Alternative form of 約翰: John, Johan, João, &c.", but rather as a transcription of the name of that specific João ... if it is sometimes used (even to refer to that particular João) without being next to "陸".
- If it's only used in one person's name, I'm not sure if it would pass the "independence" criterion under attestation. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 13:17, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Rfv-sense: formerly used sometimes as a transcription of Rodriguez or Rodrigues. Seems to be restricted to 陸若漢. (I'm only requesting for verification of the connection to Rodriguez/Rodrigues. If RFV fails, the surname sense should still be kept.) — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 03:43, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- Again, you've provided your own verification and its commonality is aside the point. Just add a rare or obsolete tag. — LlywelynII 08:08, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- Commonality is not an issue if it could be found independently of one particular person. This type of phono-semantic matching of names is common even to this day, e.g. 彭定康 (Chris Patten), 薛家平 (Frank Scarpitti), but if it's only used for one person, I don't think it merits inclusion at Wiktionary. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 13:27, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
- If I name my child Wiktionary, do I get to add
{{given name}}to Wiktionary, using public records as citations? —suzukaze (t・c) 20:09, 17 May 2017 (UTC)- Sounds like something Wonderfool would do —Aryaman (मुझसे बात करो) 15:53, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
- Rfv failed for 若漢 and 陸 (of this rfv-sense). Dokurrat (talk) 20:16, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
- Deleted 若漢 and 若汉. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 23:51, 20 January 2018 (UTC)