Talk:he or she

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

---

he or she

Forms like he/she are unbroken by spaces, and so arguably single words, but if a person votes to keep this entry, [[he]] [[or]] [[she]] should explain why. I see it as three words used with their usual meanings. - -sche (discuss) 21:31, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

See WT:COALMINE for the applicable vote. DCDuring TALK 21:59, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

OTOH, if he/she and s/he are abbreviations and not themselves words, I wouldn't think COALMINE applicable. IOW, in the face of ambiguity we might have to make a decision. DCDuring TALK 22:01, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I didn't think of COALMINE because we have no entry for heorshe (and I argue COALMINE applies only if heorshe is created and cited) — but heorshe is attested. - -sche (discuss) 22:26, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

"Heorshe" is such a weird, self-conscious, modern form that it's hard to consider it as the same thing as the natural three-word construct "he or she". Equinox ◑ 22:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

That's a reason to keep [[he or she]], isn't it — so [[heorshe]] can point to it? - -sche (discuss) 22:39, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I hadn't even seen "heorshe" before tonight. If it's genuinely common and attestable, then I suppose it mandates an entry for "he or she". Equinox ◑ 22:42, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, I'd never heard of it, either (hence I never thought of COALMINE). - -sche (discuss) 22:49, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Keep per http://nz.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110122011404AAn71N8, regardless of whether COALMINE is found to apply. —Ruakh_TALK 22:42, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Why? What am I missing? Equinox ◑ 22:51, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Good point, Ruakh. "He" cannot become pregnant, unless "he" is unmarked ("man gives live birth and breastfeeds his young"), in which case "or she" is superfluous. - -sche (discuss) 22:53, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

A transman can become pregnant, so this doesn't really apply. —CodeCat 19:44, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Can, and have; and since the question was hypothetical, it's also possible that the asker was taking into account future medical breakthroughs; but do you really think that that's why (s)he used "he or she"? —Ruakh_TALK 02:59, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• Keep : he/she is generally pronounced as he or she, so it is a coal mine. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 09:13, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Not sure that's good enough, but heorshe is, so keep.​—msh210℠ (talk) 19:33, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
    • Delete. The coalmine vote only applies for alternative forms. heorshe can't really be said to be just an alternative form of he or she, it's a contraction that was created on purpose to be a gender-neutral pronoun. —CodeCat 19:42, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
      • A contraction isn't an alternative form? ---> Tooironic 22:03, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
        • It depends on whether it's still perceived as such. alone is a contraction of all one but it's not thought of as a contraction anymore. It seems that heorshe was created with the purpose of having a single word that's separate from its compound parts. —CodeCat 22:12, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
      • Whether or not heorshe is its own pronoun, he/she certainly is an alternative form of he or she. Weak keep. ~ Robin 22:53, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I'd argue heorshe because I don't like the use of Usenet for citation of spelling. Coalmine is weakly applied with he/she. Regardless, there may be good enough reason to keep. DAVilla 05:01, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

kept -- Liliana • 19:30, 15 November 2011 (UTC)