Talk:puré de batata

RFD discussion: September–October 2021

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puré de batata

WT:SOP - Sarilho1 (talk) 14:54, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Keep. Compare Italian purè di patate. Imetsia (talk) 16:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Please remind me of the argument why purè di patate satisfies the requirement of idiomaticity.  --Lambiam 13:36, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Lambiam: Doesn't have to be idiomatic: "In rare cases, a phrase that is arguably unidiomatic may be included by the consensus of the community, based on the determination of editors that inclusion of the term is likely to be useful to readers." Wiktionary:Criteria_for_inclusion#Idiomaticity --Fytcha (talk) 13:42, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I would cite Mihia's comment at Talk:air resistance: "in theory there are many collocations, but in practice a small few seem to greatly predominate." These few should be counted either as set phrases, common-enough collocations, or whatever else so that we keep them in existence. (Note that I voted to delete "air resistance," but stare decisis is also an important consideration for me). In Italian, we can have purè di fave, purè di zucchine, and so on; but these are much rarer than purè di patate. The same logic would compel me to keep media bias, hack writer and create iron grip, turn one's life around and a number of others. So my leaning on this particular application of the SOP policy may be more radical than the community as a whole, but I do think our protections for set phrases/common collocations should be stronger. Imetsia (talk) 16:34, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Keep, of course: denotes a term. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 17:55, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

What kind of argument is that? It is a term and denotes a culinary preparation. But so do puré de batata doce, puré de cenouras, puré de couve-flor, puré de inhame, puré de maças, puré de sardinhas, ...; all are terms denoting a dish for which you can find recipes. That is also true for mashed apples, mashed cauliflower, mashed plantains and so on and so forth. And for carne assada, braised beef, μοσχάρι κοκκινιστό, duszone mięso wołowe, ... Are you arguing that we should include the names of all culinary dishes in all languages?  --Lambiam 13:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Lambiam: Personally, if there were a vote on this exact question, I'd definitely vote to allow articles to be created for all these terms you've listed. --Fytcha (talk) 13:43, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Lambiam: Maybe I was wrong here. After thinking about it some more, I don't think anymore that all those phrases deserve their own entry. I do think you have a point in what you've brought up. --Fytcha (talk) 11:13, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

A term denotes something, but "denote a term" doesn't mean anything, AFAICT. (Edit conflict.) PUC – 13:35, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Keep. --Robbie SWE (talk) 08:34, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Delete, SOP; the Italian seems to me to be equally SOP, as does the French purée de pommes de terre. PUC – 13:35, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@PUC: Are you in favor of deleting Kartoffelpüree too? --Fytcha (talk) 13:37, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

@Fytcha: Not particularly, but I wouldn't be categorically opposed to its being deleted either: I reject the notion that close compounds should automatically be protected from deletion just because they happen to be written without a space (see Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2017/July § Delete SoP compounds in languages like German and Dutch). I also reject the notion that just because we have an entry for a term in one language, we can and should automatically have entries for translations of that term in every other language. Mentioning comparanda from other languages can be useful, guide us in our decisions and sway us one way or the other, but each entry should ultimately be considered on its own merits. PUC – 18:32, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

What’s with WT:FRIED though? Somehow not every mash of potatoes is mashed potatoes, and so in Portuguese? This is not the same for all ingredients. While mashed potatoes passes, mashed buckwheat does not, and due to usage Russian гре́чка (gréčka) needs a separate listing for a dish of mashed buckwheat. Fay Freak (talk) 19:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

In Portuguese, purê is the name of a type of dish (I’d define it as “A dish that is made from a hard vegetable (typically potatoes) that is mashed, often with milk and spices, and cooked”). The argument that mashed potatoes is idiomatic because there is more to it than mere potatoes that were mashed does not apply to puré de batatas. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 23:07, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Keep. Also see mashed potatoes. AG202 (talk) 22:49, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

• Delete. Those comparing this term with mashed potatoes are missing the mark, as puré is the name of the type of dish that mashed potatoes is. It is not a general word that can be used in any context like mashed is.

Puré de batata is as idiomatic as beet soup and anchovy pizza, and as idiomatic as the examples PUC Lambiam gave above (except possibly the curious puré de sardinhas, which doesn’t seem to pass the CFI). I wouldn’t mind redirecting the page to puré. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 15:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

@Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV: No big deal, but it's Lambiam who gave examples, not me. PUC –

RFD-no-consensus. AG202 (talk) 20:11, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

This might just be a matter of personal preference, but I prefer "RFD-kept by no consensus," since RFD-no-consensus is not really a recognized result for these discussions. Imetsia (talk) 21:16, 20 October 2021 (UTC)