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Latvian color terms

Fragment of a discussion from User talk:Rua

That template no longer exists, and {{list helper}} is being replaced too, so I'm not sure what your objections are.

CodeCat15:29, 18 January 2013

If you look up the history of brūns and check the correction I just did, you'll see what I am talking about. I've also nominated the Latvian lists ({{list:days of the week/lv}}, {{list:seasons/lv}} and {{list:basic colors/lv}}) for deletion; these are the subtemplates I'm talking about.

You say they are being changed? Is something new being implemented instead of list templates?

Pereru (talk)15:53, 18 January 2013

The purpose of having templates is to allow someone to easily modify them all in one go. That is what templates in general were designed to do, to reduce duplication and allow you to write something once and use it on many pages. You know, like a template! So writing it all out manually kind of defeats that purpose and makes it harder to maintain. The solution isn't to use less templates, it's to use templates that work better.

The template {{list helper}} is the main cause of slowdown, but it is being phased out. There is a new template User:CodeCat/list helper which reduces those problems significantly, and most list templates have already been changed to use it. So the "uses too many resources" part doesn't actually apply anymore, and makes the RFD seem more like a witch hunt against anything that looks like a list template, than something that actually makes sense.

CodeCat16:00, 18 January 2013
Edited by author.
Last edit: 17:16, 18 January 2013

Yes, I understand that, from my intro-to-Wiki/Wiki-101 course. My point is that there is such a thing as a bad template, and list templates are egregious examples. So: if the template is indeed improved (how is this being done?), and if it looks better (a running list with less-than-single spacing and with superscripts at the end, looking like nothing else on Wiktionary?...), I shall have no objections to its use, nay, I shall start using it myself. (Is there a discussion on the format of the new template somewhere? I'd like to see it.)

Pereru (talk)17:16, 18 January 2013

I am not aware of anyone complaining about the format of list templates. As far as I know, the only complaint was about how they were implemented.

CodeCat17:17, 18 January 2013

Let me be the first one then. Basic complain: they don't look like anything else here at Wiktionary; as in all dictionaries, it would be, I think, better to follow standard formatting. I would much rather they looked like a table -- like the ones we have for translations, synonyms, derived terms, etc. when they are too many.

Pereru (talk)17:28, 18 January 2013

You're free to change {{list:days of the week/lv}} and others to look different, so if you prefer a table you can do that. But I would strongly recommend against writing it all out manually in each entry, that just increases maintenance problems with very little benefit.

CodeCat17:31, 18 January 2013

But it seems to me all list templates should be made to look more like Wiktionary. Why should there be something here that looks so different? Of course, I could change things manually for Latvian templates, but I'd rather not, exactly for the reasons you mention. Isn't it in the interest of Wiktionary consistency to make things look more similar? (I've occasoinnally seen outside of Wiktionary negative comments on the various formats for inflection tables here.)

Pereru (talk)17:33, 18 January 2013

It is better to be consistent, but also harder because it means we have to get everyone to agree on something. I'm not sure if my talk page is the right place to discuss it, though.

CodeCat17:35, 18 January 2013

Indeed. Where should it be discussed then? The Beer Parlor? Should I start a thread there? Where are matters pertaining to the list templates being curreently discussed / done?

Pereru (talk)17:37, 18 January 2013

Beer Parlour would be best, yes.

CodeCat17:37, 18 January 2013

OK -- I'll open a thread there now. Thanks for the input.

Pereru (talk)17:44, 18 January 2013

Also, should this rather poor format be chosen to stay, I would rather simply not use the template at all (and leave the non-template lists I've added to those pages as they are) than to change only the Latvian subtemplates -- much as I don't like the format, I like even less the idea of having inconsistent subtemplates. It would be preferable, I think, to simply delete the Latvian subtemplates in this case.

Pereru (talk)17:36, 18 January 2013