Vis M

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Entry definitions

We use # for definitions so they get automatically numbered, not *. User: The Ice Mage ^{talk to meh} 12:57, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Oh ok, I know. It was a typo by my carelessness -Vis M (talk) 14:44, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Adding etymologies and IPA

Hello, if you do not know the etymology of a word, rather than adding the section as hidden text you can type {{rfe|ml}}. Similarly when you do not know the IPA you can type {{rfp|ml}}. User: The Ice Mage ^{talk to meh} 19:26, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

@The Ice Mage ok, thanks -Vis M (talk) 19:28, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

If you are not going to add etymologies and pronunciation to your entries, then would you mind putting up a request for them instead? Kristian642 (talk) 22:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Ok, will do from next time Vis M (talk) 23:33, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Are they necessary though? most native words dont have Proto-Dravidian reconstructions and even if there is its hard to find; for pronunciation isnt the romanisation enough? and there are tons of pages so it will stay empty in most pages. Why not add them when needed? AleksiB 1945 (talk) 15:38, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, that too would have been fine. I went ahead with adding the requests anyway as it would also encourage new users to join in. I think we can track etymologies for majority of nouns. They are very interesting, even though most so far are just borrowed words from Sanskrit. Vis M (talk) 17:40, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Also, most words in Category:Foreign word of the day archive have them. In future, pronunciations may be better handled through Wikidata Lexicographical data project: Wikidata:Wikidata:Lexicographical data/Malayalam Vis M (talk) 17:51, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

പ്രത്യേകം

You've listed this as an adjective but the definition, "specially", is an adverb. Which is it? User: The Ice Mage ^{talk to meh} 16:11, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

adverb. Sorry, my mistake Vis M (talk) 16:14, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

ഒരു and ഇരു

What is the term used for words like ഒരു and ഇരു? Ive always seen it being called as adjectives and ഒന്ന് രണ്ട് as nouns but adjective isnt an accepted term in https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Module:number_list/data/ml AleksiB 1945 (talk) 08:19, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes; they are categorized as adjectives; eg: s:ml:താൾ:CiXIV31 qt.pdf/101 (Bailey) for ഇരു and https://dict.sayahna.org/stv/40833/ for ഒരു. (However, note that the word "both" is a w:Determiner).

See "WT:POS" for Wiktionary's guidelines. And, the general consensus at d:WD:Lexicographical data is to use the broadest classification for words.

"ഒരു" is also used analogous to the English w:article "a"; but Malayalam do not formally have articles.

So, I think "adjectives" would be the most apt category for the terms "ഒരു" and "ഇരു" to be put in for now. And they need not be added to Module:number list/data/ml. Thanks. Vis M (talk) 09:31, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

പിന്നീട്

Thanks for your contributions on English Malayalam Dictionary. Please take a look at shabdkosh.com/dictionary/malayalam-english/ Specially, the sense "later" ,which is the opposite of "into the past". Can you verify these senses on shabdkosh.com, and if yes add them whenever you have time? PS If you can verify I can try to add them too Flāvidus (talk) 05:39, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes. It means "later". Created entry for "പിന്നീട്". HTH Vis M (talk) 09:37, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

ml-IPA voicing

Intervocalic and post nasal voicing is not only a feature of standard Malayalam but was a feature even in Proto Dravidian, it was mentioned in Tolkappiyam too, അകം must be pronounced with a [g] not a [k]. And as voiced and voiceless plosives are distinct and phonemic unlike Tamil, voiced plosives must be transcribed with voiced plosive letters even in broad transcription AleksiB 1945 (talk) 13:51, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay, but is it strong enough for the change in characters? Also, does any dictionary do it for Malayalam IPA transcription? I think we should get the consensus from more people working on this. Vis M (talk) 15:26, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Ive never seen IPA transcription in Malayalam dictionaries, its either chat like transcription ഇടത് as idath/itathu or Indic transliteration iṭatŭ or an older version of it as in Gundert's dictionary തടാകം as taṭākam/taḍāγam AleksiB 1945 (talk) 16:33, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, hopefully in Modern Malayalam dictionaries Vis M (talk) 02:32, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@AleksiB 1945, I think you should not have reverted[1] my edit to ml-IPA Module without reaching consensus first. IMO, the current Wiktionary IPA for Malayalam is in wrong state, which is very bad as it is affecting thousands of entries. Please discuss and reach consensus before making controversial changes. The numerous renamings you did[2] on Malayalam Wikipedia were also without any consensus. Vis M (talk) 05:33, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

>As is common in other Dravidian languages (e.g. Tamil; Keane), voiceless unaspirated singleton plosives are usually realized as voiced between vowels and after nasals, and may be further weakened to voiced fricatives or approximants (Asher & Kumari). For example, in the word  /e n t e/ ‘mine’, the voiceless alveolar plosive /t/ is produced as [d], such that the word may be transcribed phonetically as [e n d e]. This contrasts with voiced dental [  ] in  /e   a/ ‘what?’, phonetically [e   a].[3]

>Aspirates are pronounced by many Malayalam speakers either as the corresponding voiceless aspirates or the voiced stops. Thus bharam weight may be [pharam] or [baram].[4]

For audios here is a news reported devoicing it (mathu instead of madhu for example) and a person aspirating and unaspirating irregularly [5] (yuddham and then yuddam for example)

As for ml.wikt, i had given an explanation here after a mod pinged me though most of the time i had given the title change reason in the edit summary itself like here, which was conveniently ignored and later the same person blocked me for some ; anyway all of them are reverted now. AleksiB 1945 (talk) 10:02, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

But these changes are against the consensus. w:Wikipedia:Correct is an appropriate essay for these situations. Always try to gain consensus before making questionable decisions that may affect a large number of pages. Best regards. Vis M (talk) 10:42, 15 December 2023 (UTC)