Xenos melophilos

IPA pronunciation of Proto-Turkic lemmas

If you really have an IPA reconstruction, you should refer it. BurakD53 (talk) 23:46, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I think that Proto-Turkic wasn't a "palatalized" language. Because the "r" in chuvash may be explained with a Oghur Dialectal "ʐ" that changed to "ɽ".

Then why Common Turkic languages have the r-form? saz and sarı, göz and gör-, semiz and semir-/semri-? It's not debatable that r is the archaic one, that's the proven truth. BurakD53 (talk) 15:22, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

The same thing with the chuvash "l". It may be explained with a Oghur dialectal [ɬ]

But we cannot know this, you are not a linguist and even if you are, you can not be sure about the correct IPA character. So you cannot reconstruct IPA, or at least here in Wiktionary. BurakD53 (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuvash_language#History

My suggestion is that Common Turkic is actually the proto-language, in contrast with Oghur, a dialect Xenos melophilos (talk) 14:05, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Wiktionary is not the place to overturn long-standing, universally accepted positions. Allahverdi Verdizade (talk) 17:16, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Khalaj

Are you sure that there is no any infinitive case of verbs in Khalaj? Doesn't it have -mak, -mek? BurakD53 (talk) 16:23, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Nope, I thought that, i believed that but no. Khalaj verbs are as Salar ones (without a infinitive). In both the root is the infinitive

In Grammatik des Chaladsch, -mAk is a verbalnomen (similarly with turkish -me) Xenos melophilos (talk) 16:30, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

okay, i have to recognize it: maq is the infinitive

3

Xenos melophilos (talk) 23:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

دوْووشغان

We do not include diacritics in the pagename. Stop moving it around. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 21:29, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Okey.

But, what about azeri اوْخ Xenos melophilos (talk) 21:31, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

The sukun isn't necesary (for ex. in اولماق)

So? Xenos melophilos (talk) 21:32, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

plurals

See Talk:قوش ارپاسؽ. BurakD53 (talk) 23:23, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Invitation

Can I have your mail adress to invite you somewhere? BurakD53 (talk) 21:24, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

<'Semi-Australia-ball mode'> [1]https://www.polandballwiki.com/wiki/Australiaball

(ereht eb reven ll'i kniht i hguohtla) ereht em tnaw uoy od yhw nosaer a emmig, utB. aciremA-nitaL ni evil i dna eyikrüT ni evil ouY. elbissopmi eb dluow ti kniht i utb yrroS

sgniht emos wnok t'nod uow oslA Xenos melophilos (talk) 21:36, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Anyway, here Wiktionary Discord server: https://discord.gg/BCZAe3Nu BurakD53 (talk) 21:52, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

---

Khalaj forms

Do you have Khalaj forms of these three reconstructed verbs?

• Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/tod-
• Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/kod-
• Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/umnït-

Thanks in advance. Ardahan Karabağ (talk) 21:44, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Only there's todmaq, nothing more

I'll create the page Xenos melophilos (talk) 21:50, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Can I help you to something else about khalaj descendant words from p-turkic? Xenos melophilos (talk) 20:41, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm really really sorry for my late response, I haven't noticed it. Can you find the Khalaj descendants of these verbs and words as you capable?

• Proto-Turkic: *hārt, *ārt (“back”)
• Proto-Turkic: *xāčï-, *iāčï- (“to become bitter, sour”) and
• Proto-Turkic: *ūdï- (“to sleep”)

Thanks again 🙏🏻. Ardahan Karabağ (talk) 20:28, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

@Xenos melophilos Do you know what does Khalaj people say for the numeral "ten" ? Is it something like ôn/hôn/hôon, can you check it? Ardahan Karabağ (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

ûon, or ôn, generally Xenos melophilos (talk) 23:28, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Ay! Sorry, although there's not **qodmaq, there is qômaq

Also, there is a word for sleep: ûdımaq Xenos melophilos (talk) 16:09, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Template error at alt#Khalaj

Whilst editing over at alt I happened to notice that a template used in the Khalaj entry was throwing an error: "Warning: This page calls Template:klj-infl-noun-table which causes a template loop (an infinite recursive call)."

Since it appears you are the main person working on this template, I thought I'd let you know so you can look into this. Otherwise someone over at the Grease pit might be able to help out. Cheers Helrasincke (talk) 05:27, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

As far as I can tell it's because of this edit. What is that supposed to accomplish? As far as I can tell it calls a template that calls the calling template, then returns nothing because it has no output parameter. Chuck Entz (talk) 06:51, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Khalaj seemingly has two forms of dative (-iya and -ina) when it comes to compound words

That's why

But now i'm tryin to delete that edit Xenos melophilos (talk) 22:06, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

New entry

Hi @Xenos melophilos! Please add Khalaj entry for "to draw"! Thanks for the advice! Mihai Popa 😃📃 ^{Talk to me! 💬} 『My contributions! 🕔🕖』 23:37, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

There's not any word for "to draw". The word i found is "çizmək", but this means "to scratch", not "to draw" Xenos melophilos (talk) 23:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

@Xenos melophilos To scratch? Please create if you can't find it! Also please send link! Mihai Popa 😃📃 ^{Talk to me! 💬} 『My contributions! 🕔🕖』 00:02, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C3%A7izm%C9%99k#Khalaj

here is Xenos melophilos (talk) 00:19, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

@Xenos melophilos And for the word cheese? Mihai Popa 😃📃 ^{Talk to me! 💬} 『My contributions! 🕔🕖』 00:25, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/p%C9%99n%C3%AEr Xenos melophilos (talk) 00:31, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

@Xenos melophilos Also please do for the word movie! Mihai Popa 😃📃 ^{Talk to me! 💬} 『My contributions! 🕔🕖』 00:44, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

There isn't

At the least i doerfer

I think that, if that word exists, it'd be "film" (like in persian), but idk

there's not reference Xenos melophilos (talk) 00:48, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

@Xenos melophilos Instead, make for the word angry! Mihai Popa 😃📃 ^{Talk to me! 💬} 『My contributions! 🕔🕖』 00:52, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

qazəbnâk Xenos melophilos (talk) 11:08, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

New entry (part 2)

Hi @Xenos melophilos! Please add Khalaj entry for water! If you did it, please send link! Thanks for the advice! Mihai Popa 😃📃 ^{Talk to me! 💬} 『My contributions! 🕔🕖』 02:21, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

suv Xenos melophilos (talk) 10:06, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Khalaj uncreated verb categories

You added a bunch of uncreated categories like Khalaj verbs with aorist in -V³r and Khalaj verbs with imperative in -V¹ to the Khalaj verb templates. I'm looking into creating these categories but I have no idea what -V³r and -V¹ mean. Can you elaborate, and is this (a) standard terminology for Khalaj, (b) something that is specific to only a single author, or (c) something you created yourself? Thanks. Benwing2 (talk) 22:27, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

(b)

Doerfer categorized verbs according to aorist and a bunch of imperatives (there are 10 imperatives). The aorist ending not only affects aorist itself, but also the repeated verbal adverb and the present tense (though there are a few dialects which are exceptions). Though Doerfer doesn't say it, I call those aorist vowels "thematic vowels" (since those vowels appear after the root)

The imperative ending not only affects positive imperative mood, but also the past and the intentional

pd: khalaj has something like "interrogative imperatives" which end in -(d)Am (for first-person singular) and -(d)AK (for first-person plural), similar to turkish "alayım mı?"

See Grammatik des Chaladsch for more Xenos melophilos (talk) 22:51, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, I take it V is the thematic vowel, which varies according to vowel harmony. What do the superscript 3 and 1 mean here? Benwing2 (talk) 04:48, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

wait, wait. When you find -V³r or -V²r they mean the -ür/ır and ər/ar aorist ending, whose vowel affects the repeated verbal adverb and the present tense.

İmperatives are different: they're ten. When you find for ex. the ending -V¹ it means the imperative suffix i/ı Xenos melophilos (talk) 12:47, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

In that case why not use the actual vowels in the category, e.g. CAT:Khalaj verbs with aorist in -ür/-ır? That is normal Wiktionary practice, and much less opaque than -V³r or -V²r. Benwing2 (talk) 20:03, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

then explain me the existence of Category:Turkish verbs with aorist in -V²r Xenos melophilos (talk) 20:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

If Turkish does that, it needs to be changed too. The wider practice is still not to use opaque labels esp. as according to you this is not standard terminology but adopted only by one author. Benwing2 (talk) 20:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Corrected. Things like Category:Khalaj verbs with aorist in -V³r changed to Category:Khalaj verbs with aorist in -ər. See e. g. batmaq

better? Xenos melophilos (talk) 21:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, thank you! Benwing2 (talk) 21:26, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

add adjectival/noun defintion for *yum-

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/yum-

It has a verbal definition, but according to https://starlingdb.org, it also means 1 round 2 ball of wool, thread. It says: One of expressive common Turkic roots meaning 'round, spherical'. L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 17:31, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean this? https://starlingdb.org/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=%2fdata%2falt%2fturcet&text_number=1555&root=config

If so, we're not talking about the same root. The verbal one has a front variant, while the nominal one doesn't have it. Maybe that's why those meanings aren't in the entry

Instead, one should create another entry or section about this root, ig. Xenos melophilos (talk) 18:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

oh yes youre right of course, thats why *yum- isn't listed with *yüm-/*yum-. I am not sure how to create a separate entry for the nominal root. any tips? L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 19:09, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/ogr%C3%AF

Probably you can copy it and, if you're gonna add descendants, you can base on entries like this https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/%C4%81g-

or this https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/ya%C4%BA-, with things like "Common Turkic: *yaĺmak (“yashmak”)". Since there's not any turkic language that conserves the noun "yum", but instead having other words deriving from it, it's better to make those, ehm, "turkic subreconstructions", and then put the descendants

do you get it? Xenos melophilos (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yumak

the turkish entry links to the root *yum- but that only lists the verbal form not the nominal form. I don't think i have permissions yet to create the new page myself. Ive only made a 110 or edits on the whole of wiktionary. I think ill only unlock those permissions later. L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 19:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

i'll try add a noun section to the existing page. and see if it works. L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 20:06, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

nevermind, I think it might be confusing to have the two similar roots on the same page. L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 20:10, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

what about "etymology 1" and "etymology 2" Xenos melophilos (talk) 20:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

i thought about that. that was what i was going to do but i thought it might be confusing. i will try it now, now that its morning. L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 11:26, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/yum-

I have added etymology 2. I would need some help to find all the cognates. There are two branches, one that became round/lump, and the other that became ball (of wool). c.f., Turkish Yumru, and Yumak L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 12:06, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

y'know what

better to create an entry, since this word is an adjective/noun, not a verb. Verbs always have a hyphen for their root,

i'mma make it Xenos melophilos (talk) 14:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

ok great but all the redirects i've made to *yum- for the nominal forms, must go to that page now. also the adjective/noun root does have a hyphen, in the starlingdb.org database L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 14:53, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

well ok. but i saw that in wiktionary adjectives and nouns don't have hyphens. See for ex the word *söz Xenos melophilos (talk) 14:55, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

if that is the style guide then that must be the one to follow. obviously the format will differ between starlingdb (and the sources it uses) and here. thanks for your help L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 14:57, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/yum Xenos melophilos (talk) 15:09, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

thank you!!! L0ngh3nry89 (talk) 15:51, 18 June 2024 (UTC)