Cypriot Arabic

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by the way I wanted to ask how do you know Cypriot Arabic? عربي-٣١ (talk) 16:56, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@عربي-٣١: I don't know it much. I am just adding terms from Borg, Alexander (2004) A Comparative Glossary of Cypriot Maronite Arabic (Arabic–English) (Handbook of Oriental Studies; I.70), Leiden and Boston: Brill. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 01:06, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Reversion of 'fi'

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I believe this is an error. 'fi' is actually the proper preposition in its natural form, 'f' is just a contraction of it. Therefore I think it would make more sense as to leave its information under 'fi' or at the very least list it there as an alternative form. Thanks Melithius (talk) 22:57, 21 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

It is not a contraction. ‹i› is an epenthetic vowel unlike for example in li. So it makes sense to have f’ as the lemma form. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 14:25, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Hm never thought of it that way, especially since it comes from Arabic فِي regarded as full ‘fi’. Also f’ has an apostrophe generally used for contracted forms of words (like hawn > haw’, lil > ‘(i)l, hence my statement. Melithius (talk) 15:37, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
In many Arabic dialects, the preposition is simply فْ (f) not فِي (fi). — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 12:23, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Fenakhay I would like to add the fact that the dictionary form for f' seems to be fi as shown in Ġabra, il-Miklem and some other Maltese teaching websites. However I am not sure of the dictionary form stated in the physical dictionaries of Maltese as I didn't have access to them. SidAlmoħadMuwaħħid (talk) 01:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Redirection of ġieli to ġie li

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They have two different meanings. Ġieli comes from ġie li but is now used as more of a phrase to say ‘sometimes’ hence its agglutination, ġie li means what it literally means: ‘it came that’, therefore this is undoubtibly wrong. Melithius (talk) 15:42, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

It is the form used by Aquilina. We can have the one-word spelling as an alternative form as I did. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 12:24, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Even if that is the case, it does not matter. Every modern dictionary and formal text would list it as one word, especially because of the distinction between it and the two word form. At best, I would list Aqualina's version as a superseded spelling, as as it is misleading. Melithius (talk) 15:48, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
It is not misleading per se. I will make the change. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 15:53, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
'Obsolete' I meant. Ok Thanks. Melithius (talk) 20:34, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

3arabizi

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Hi,
Entries in 3arabizi are accepted here (for exemple the Darija word 7ba9 or m9all9a) Àncilu (talk) 21:50, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

No, they are not. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 21:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
It might be nice to have an entry for term "3arabizi" itself, though I'm not sure what language to call it. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Chuck Entz: If anything at all, a hard redirect, like this spasibo. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Chuck Entz: Actually, it's an English slang word, I just made it. Number "3" stands for the Arabic letter ع (ʕ), which is silent in English but pronounced in Arabic. Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Omission of ‘possible reduplication of garr’ from gerger

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It doesn’t matter what vowels are between g-r-g-r; vowels can easily change phonetically with no assimilation to pevious conjugations/forms in Maltese, take e.g. perfect tense ‘garr’ yet present tense ‘jgorr’ (a->o). Maltese, even more than Arabic, isn’t that dependent on what the vowels are, just as long as there’s a set quantity and tone, hence contributing to many phonetic vowel change in both standard and especially dialectal Maltese and Arabic. Not disproving your claim, but I think my initial ‘possible’ was fair. Melithius (talk) 21:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

That's not how vowels work in Arabic. ⟨r⟩ is an emphatic consonant in the word garr hence why it is pronounced with /a/. If it were reduplicated, it would yield **gargar. Emphatic consonants don't just disappear like that. If you can find a source for your claims, add them. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 21:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
I didn’t state they disappear, nor am i talking about Arabic if i made it seem that way, I’m simply saying that in Maltese vowels sometimes have big tendencies to change, irregardless of previous forms. Yes I agree it would be unlikely, but given a quadriliteral word form is already exceptional, further exceptions could take place if I’m making sense. Also, I find it possible that at one point it would have been **gargar, but would’ve changed due to colloquilisation. However again given it seems unlikely, it’s fine as it is, thanks.
Also wanted to ask where do you get your info from Aquilina, online sources or his own books and dictionaries? Melithius (talk) 22:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Melithius: The latter. If you are referring to the etymology of kukrumbajsa, it is in Aquilina, G. (1945). Nisel il-kliem. Lehen il-Malti, 176-178, 125-127. If you can't find it, I can send it to you by email (you need to add an email to your account first). — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 22:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
Managed to find them online. Thanks anyways. Melithius (talk) 22:57, 29 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Reversion of removal of feminine and plural conjugation of viċin and qrib

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They absolutely do not have such conjugations. Just because they are adjectives does not mean they have to conjugate that way. If one were to say ‘she is close’ they’d say ‘hija qrib/viċin’ not ‘hija qriba/viċina’. This is undoubtedly wrong. May you please say why you think it’s not? Melithius (talk) 14:34, 31 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

I find this hard to believe since all Maltese dictionaries mention them plus there are so many hits online. We have a note under qrib though. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 23:50, 31 January 2024 (UTC)Reply
No I assure you this is basically never said or else very very rare. Generally If it was it would be considered incorrect.
I guess it could have been said normally but changed to be this way, especially considering the fact it's mostly used with qiegħed or another verb like e.g. qiegħda qrib/viċin. Melithius (talk) 06:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Appendix: Maltese Verbs (idea)

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I think there should be an appendix for maltese verb including the kinds of verbs, the ways these forms are formed and other information, almost like the Arabic verbs appendix. I am not sure how to create such a page without much help and I wish for your help to create and form this Please. What do you think? Melithius (talk) 20:47, 7 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Melithius: That would be a good addition, but I sadly don't have the time to draft one at the moment. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 21:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
No problem, if you ever do decide to start and would need help post-draft feel free to reply to this message again. Thanks. Melithius (talk) 22:51, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Melithius: Will do! — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 23:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sanskrit -ās, -os nouns

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Was there a module error for this? Now दोस् doesn't work, which has a perfectly regular declension. Exarchus (talk) 12:31, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Exarchus: Yeah, many. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 12:32, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'm not really sure which change caused the errors, and not even sure it was one of my changes because I briefly saw a few Indic script entries in the module error category (among which a Bengali one) and they disappeared (except दोस्) without me doing anything. So I'll try to reinstate my edits one by one, immediately reverting if I see errors appearing. Exarchus (talk) 12:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply
oops, I forgot a '$' sign Exarchus (talk) 13:18, 11 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Module:ar-verb has a couple problems with verbs حي/حيي

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I was busy looking for entries حي and حيي. Notice a few problems? Short past form حَيَّ still generates long present يَحْيَا instead of short one which is يَحَيُّ per Lisan al-Arab: [1]. Also notice how participles aren't generated at all. Perhaps Template:ar-conj needs parameters for manually setting them up for specific rare cases like this? Or code change to generate them automatically? Fixmaster (talk) 17:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

Seems like it also doesn't work with عَيَّ/عَيِيَ from the root ع ي ي (the عَيِيَ is handled properly if one specifies i/a paradigm, but the geminated form doesn't work, ar-conj won't generate table at all). Fixmaster (talk) 17:19, 5 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Module:ar-verb can't force a geminated form I verb into sound form

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Sorry for bothering again, but there's one more problem: I tried to create entry for حَبُبَ/يَحْبُبُ (paradigm u/u) "to be loved" (very rare case, i found only 3 verbs with geminate roots of paradigm u/u mentioned in Lane's lexicon, شَرُرَ and لَبُبَ are 2 others, despite their root, they're conjugated like sound verbs with no gemination), but ar-conj couldn't generate the table even after forcing the verb type as "I-sound" (it demands specification of gemination as its weakness; with I-geminated, ar-conj does generate the conjugation table, but as a standard geminate verb with gemination, حَبَّ). Seems like one can only force sound conjugation with a weak root letter, but not with geminate roots. Fixmaster (talk) 17:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Reversions of several words listed under Albanian

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Hi, you reverted the deletion of these words - homoseksual, homoseksualitet, heteroseksualitet. These are uncited and do not exist in any Albanian dictionaries.

https://fjalorthi.com/

https://fjalori.shkenca.org/

http://www.seelrc.org:8080/albdict/ Neo204 (talk) 16:07, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Neo204: If you dispute existence of words in a language, you can add {{rfv|sq|Your reason (optionally)}}} to the entry and add an entry in Wiktionary:Requests for verification/Non-English. The terms can be easily cited from Google books, though, as far as I can tell. Absence in dictionaries mean nothing. Why waste everybody's time? Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 22:35, 6 March 2024 (UTC)Reply
No need for rudeness.

<tag:...> inline modifier and tag= param

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Hi, I notice you've been using the |tag= param and/or <tag:...> inline modifier in {{syn}}, {{ant}} and/or {{desc}}. These are changing to be |lb= and <lb:...> now that dialect tags have been unified with labels; the values of these parameters are handled just like labels in the {{lb}} template. Benwing2 (talk) 20:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Regarding Maltese nxtewa

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@Fenakhay Hello I just want to ask isn't nxtewa a weak form VII verb (at least according to Ġabra and my Maltese knowledge)? I don't understand on the reversion that you did. Perhaps we can discuss further about it. -- SidAlmoħadMuwaħħid (talk) 00:31, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

@SidAlmoħadMuwaħħid: You are misusing the template. You need to create another one for the VII-nt form. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 15:28, 28 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Fenakhay Ow I see alrighty then -- SidAlmoħadMuwaħħid (talk) 05:14, 29 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

Regarding Maltese 'ilu'

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Recently I read an interesting suggestion that says 'ilu' actually comes from *ewlu, which comes from 'ewwel' (first, beginning), in the sense of in the beginning of (a particular) time, hence long ago. I see this as making much more sense then 'to himself' as in the sentence 'ilu li għamilha', it makes more sense to say 'from the beginning he did it' then 'to himself he did it'. Although arguably I could maybe understand it as 'to him (came the time when) he did it', but i think the aforementioned suggestion is more reasonable...

What are your thoughts on this? Could it be added as a possible etymology? If not, may you please explain how such a shift in meaning can occur in this context? Thanks! Melithius (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Melithius: That seems like a folk etymology with no phonological basis. That usage is found in many Arabic dialects and the etymology makes sense to me personally. Furthermore, the etymology we provide is Aquilina's, and he doesn't mention any other theory. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 16:39, 10 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Regarding 'Beqqi'

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Yes Aquilina does say it's from a Berber Language? I saw it myself in his dictionary volume 1? Linkage to Egyptian b' however was only a possibility, given same meaning. Melithius (talk) 09:06, 11 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

He says: "onomat. form. from the impression created by the bleating of goats. cp. Berber , sheep, goat, baba, goat (J. Bynon, 1968)". The onomatopoeia LABIAL+a for goats is common crosslinguistically. So this comparison is irrelevant. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 23:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Ah, my mistake then, misread it. Sorry! Melithius (talk) 07:05, 12 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Arabic Etymologies

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@Fenakhay Hello, I just want to ask why the Arabic etymologies in Tagalog have been removed. While I understand that probably it's a cleaner look, or minimizing pages to edit and just making it dercat, wouldn't it be nice if I can see the entire etymology of a word in one glance, instead of going through each language step one by one? Not a lot of people sees the categories at the bottom right away. Then again there may be a other reason for it so yea I'm just asking. Thanks! Ysrael214 (talk) 20:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ysrael214: Looks like your argument about visibility of categories will fizzle out if this passes: Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2024/May#Enabling categories for logged-out users. I understand that on the Philippines, mobile internet use has greater significance for the bulk of the population. It’s barely about the look however, but avoiding leaving information that can get out of sync with where it has been copied from. Fay Freak (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Fay Freak Oh good, the visibility of the categories would greatly help solving this problem. May take time for people to learn but at least it's more accessible. And yea I understand the desync of information, isn't there an automated etymology tree in the works? I think I saw something like that. Ysrael214 (talk) 06:09, 17 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Ysrael214: The vote on etymology trees is still running, man, though it will only augment textual etymologies, not supplant them. You can see the vote on the trees, as a more impactful one, in your watchlist. How about you just vote on things? Fay Freak (talk) 12:51, 17 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Fay Freak Sure thanks. Ysrael214 (talk) 18:18, 17 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

azzara's etymon

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You reverted twice my edit. Can you tell me etymologically why? Hyblaeorum (talk) 08:39, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Hyblaeorum: Because you are removing a valid etymology, maybe? Maltese azzara is a verb derived from Sicilian azzariari. Traina, Antonino (1868) “Fenakhay”, in Nuovo vocabolario Siciliano-Italiano [New Sicilian-Italian vocabulary] (in Italian), Liber Liber, published 2020, page 471. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 08:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'm really tired of having to debate Sicilian lexicography and etymologies with non-native speakers. The Sicilian language is a minority language, still poorly studied today. Sicilian dictionaries available online such as the over-quoted Traina are affected by a high level of spelling imprecision, in addition to the fact that the spelling has often met (if not clashed with) the Italian academic superstratum. Therefore, regardless of what Traina wrote about it (whose surname itself is the clear example of the Italianisation of the habitational surname of "Troina", starting from the Sicilian Trajina) the Maltese lemma can certainly derive from the Sicilian stratum and therefore either from azzaru or from the verb azzarijari. For that latter there is and specific reason for the infixion of that -j-. The etymon of that lemma is now still incorrect because of your unsolicited intervention. I am here to listen your counterarguments. Hyblaeorum (talk) 08:59, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Revision of "عنكبوت"

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In terms of Arabic etymology, creating the same ending of spider and octopus is interesting as both of them possess multiple limbs Ravirro (talk) 18:14, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ravirro: Sounds exceedingly random. I mean there is a preference for meanings to be connected with certain patterns, but this is pernickety and so unfathomable to most readers that I’d rather remove this information lest they be confused. Fay Freak (talk) 21:11, 16 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Arabic preposition tables

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“There is no 1st-person dual person pronoun” is like saying “there is no feminine 1st-person plural person pronoun”. Doesn’t mean no pronoun is used in those cases. The one which is used is -nā, that’s why it should be extended to all three—or at least a note should be added. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 16:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

alerji

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Why exactly did you revert my edit, which I saw as enriching the categorization and context? Shoshin000 (talk) 09:34, 24 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Bah! Humbug! RFV

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May I ask...is there any particular reason you believe that this would fail RFV? Did you did a 30-second Google Books search before RFVing? Purplebackpack89 20:20, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

And Related...why the revert at bah humbug? Shouldn't literal and metaphorical uses be separate definitions? Purplebackpack89 20:25, 27 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

replying to your proposal

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I 100% agree and have been thinking about bringing up that issue for some time. Ignoring verb forms, we can safely assume the stress is word-final like 95~99% of the time.

I do want to mention that such a change would need to be made twice... perhaps Tajik pronunciation should only be generated in one module, either fa-IPA or tg-IPA, not both? Though, maybe that's a separate issue for another time — SAMEER (؂؄؏) 10:11, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

also MB on ҷуғрофиё, I put Persian out of habit and I was too sleepy to notice. — SAMEER (؂؄؏) 10:29, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Sameerhameedy: I agree with you. One way to achieve this is by generating the Tajik pronunciation from the Tajik Cyrillic romanisation (this should be added to Module:fa-IPA), and not directly from the Classical Persian romanisation. This way we only have one endpoint for Tajik pronunciation either called by {{fa-IPA}} (from the Classical Persian romanisation) or {{tg-IPA}} (from the Cyrillic spelling). We can get rid of Module:tg-IPA after this. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 10:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Sameerhameedy: I just reread Module:tg-IPA's code and I think we could just make the Tajik pronunciation endpoint (in Module:fa-IPA) accept Tajik transliteration instead of Classical Persian romanisation. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 11:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
It may be possible to do something like:
if (sc == "Cyrl") then 
::	text = mw.ustring.gsub(text, '[Оо]', 'ā')
::	text = mw.ustring.gsub(text, '[Ӯӯ]', 'ō')
::		end
::text = lang:transliterate(text)
::text = ulower(text)
which would effectively convert it to a Classical romanization (since Tajik has no vowel length, the fact that vowel length is lost using this method would not matter that much). — SAMEER (؂؄؏) 21:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

Appendix:ǃKung word lists

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The non-existent templates {{tl|what}} and {{tl|dubious}} are examples of items that clutter our Special:Wanted pages. I was looking for a way to remove them from that listing, where Appendix:ǃKung word lists is the only page that calls for the templates. Do you have any other ideas for removing them from Special:Wantedtemplates? Deletion? nowiki? DCDuring (talk) 14:57, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@DCDuring: I know. Your edit was throwing an error, hence my revert. I've converted them to plain text. — Fenakhay (حيطي · مساهماتي) 15:03, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I missed that. Thanks. DCDuring (talk) 18:21, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@DCDuring: Now your links here are all that are left. You might want to be more careful about using {{tl}} for empty templates from now on. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:08, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
@User:Chuck Entz When an issue is raised it can help to use {{template}} to show whether the template exists. When the discussion is done nowiki-ing {{template}} is a great idea, so good, IMHO, that it ought to be applied globally ASAP. I have nowiki-ed many of my user pages that had redlinked templates and pages. If I want to find templates and pages that need creating I temporarily reverse the nowiki-ing and, if I remember, restore it afterwards. I've got my hands full just working on the most linked-too taxonomic pages and templates, as nobody else seems to think that most-linked-to is an important criterion for adding or improving entries. DCDuring (talk) 15:28, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Random reverts

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Care to explain your reverts? hard candy should be linked as one word, collective nouns are not the same as uncountable nouns, Category:Rhymes:Maltese/ajt exists. [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 20:02, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Why are you performing bulk edits removing improvements and categorization? [ˌiˑvã̠n̪ˑˈs̪kr̺ud͡ʒʔˌn̺ovã̠n̪ˑˈt̪ɔ̟t̪ːo] (parla con me) 20:22, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

...and bad blocks too

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Obviously, your block of me wasn't that long and it's over now...

...but I don't think you should've done it.

  1. Benwing nominated an article I created for deletion
  2. Within a few hours, five people have voted to retain it
  3. I suggest to Benwing that he withdraw a nomination that is likely to be closed as keep
  4. You block me for supposed harassment a few minutes later

Benwing makes a questionable RfD, I'm the one who gets blocked? You also goofed with the timing, in that it ended being 31 hours instead of 24. Purplebackpack89 05:40, 5 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

various issues

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You pinged me about various issues. I fixed the ones involving {{category redirect}} where 'words' should say 'terms'. (It's possible there are others involving {{movecat}}; if so they still need to be done.) I am getting rid of {{hi-usex}}/{{hi-x}} and {{ur-x}} now, using a new {{uxa}} template that does autodetermination of whether to inline, similar in spirit to what was done by the old templates. Basically, it computes the character width of the raw text portion of the inline output (i.e. links are delinked and HTML is stripped), with Asian characters counting as twice as wide. If the total width (which includes example, translit, gloss, parens, etc.) is > 100 chars, it made multiline, otherwise inline. This should work out similar to the previous code, which checked just the example to see if it was > 30 chars. Ideally we need a better solution that e.g. does different things on desktop and mobile, and maybe even knows the average width of a character in different scripts; but what I have will do for now.

As for the Hindustani conversion, I did that manually only on Persian Descendants sections. I'm writing a script to try to do this automatically everywhere, since there are more than 2000 raw occurrences of Hindustani in Descendants sections, too many to do by hand. Benwing2 (talk) 06:33, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hyphenation

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Hi @Fenakhay, I hope you're well.

I've noticed that you've been removing the hyphenation template from Urdu and Punjabi lemmas, is there any reason for this? In Urdu, we have something similar to hyphenation to illustrate Urdu spelling / phonology, hence why it is usually included in Wiktionary as well. نعم البدل (talk) 04:38, 11 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Rollback of the Chinese translations for penance

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I am sorry but I don't see any issue in my edits. Why did you remove the translations for penance? It has multiple translations and I find these existing translations in the Chinese corpus reasonable in different levels of definitions since penance is a polysemous word indeed. Is there any rule that I missed when I edited the Wiktionary entry? --Weatheryn (talk) 16:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Weatheryn: first you used the wrong language code, which is an understandable mistake- but it left a mass of garbage in the translations under "L" for "Lua error", which you didn't clean up. Then you added a verb which might be translatable as do penance, to the translation section of the noun penance. That would be like adding Mandarin (eat) to the translation section for food. Yes, they're related semantically, but they're not the same thing. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:59, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Reply