Human-potato hybrid
Welcome edit
Welcome edit
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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! PseudoSkull (talk) 07:56, 31 March 2018 (UTC)
Pronunciation of "primer" edit
Hello, I want to begin by thanking you for your contributions to Wiktionary! As you know Wiktionary is an entirely volunteer project, so it is good to have your help. A while ago, you marked the pronunciation /ˈpɹaɪmɚ/ for primer, etymology 1, as "irregular, but common; borrowed from Etymology 2". Until recently, I was unaware of any other pronunciation, and generally unaware of the pronunciation with /ɪ/. Out of curiosity, I checked the Middle English Dictionary's corresponding entry, prīmē̆r(e. Based on the entries title including a "ī", I understand the dictionary to be saying that the vowel is the same kind as that which later developed in words like wife, bind, and fine, which generally have the diphthong /aɪ/. Additionally though, I find a number of dictionaries that only list a pronunciation with /ɪ/ for the first etymology. Since historical phonology is not my area of expertise, it doesn't seem like things are completely settled. Can you share with me your understanding of the history of primer and its pronunciation? Thanks again you for your work and I hope you take care. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 05:57, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
- There's a good chance that the MED's vowel in primer is mistakenly extended from the ModE form with /aɪ/; I would reconstruct ME /priˈmeːr~ˈprimər/. This is far from the only instance where the MED can't be relied upon for vowel length/quality indications; all too often, they sloppily retroject ModE forms backwards as here, so it's always best to consult other sources (for primer, I believe most of the EModE and 17th c. orthoepists have /ɪ/). Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 07:12, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
- Interesting, I was not previously familiar with criticism of the MED's work regarding vowels and didn't find anything is a quick search. I did manage to find one critiquing is choice of headwords and organization of definitions, though. Please point me to a source if you know of one, I am interested in learning more. The only early pronouncing dictionaries that I could get my hands on were from the 1700s, but they indeed all indicate an /ɪ/ in primer. I am curious about the extent the dictionaries were descriptive of the common existing pronunciations rather than solely perscriptive (as many of them decry "vulgar" pronunciations), but their consensus is telling. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
- My criticism stems from personal experience rather than anything I've read, so it's not surprising that you haven't found anything concrete. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 07:43, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
- Interesting, I was not previously familiar with criticism of the MED's work regarding vowels and didn't find anything is a quick search. I did manage to find one critiquing is choice of headwords and organization of definitions, though. Please point me to a source if you know of one, I am interested in learning more. The only early pronouncing dictionaries that I could get my hands on were from the 1700s, but they indeed all indicate an /ɪ/ in primer. I am curious about the extent the dictionaries were descriptive of the common existing pronunciations rather than solely perscriptive (as many of them decry "vulgar" pronunciations), but their consensus is telling. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 22:27, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
- I learned from an experienced English teacher that the proper pronunciation for primer (book) was /ˈpɹɪ.mɚ/, different from the common pronunciation of /ˈpɹaɪmɚ/ (device for priming) which seems to be a newer sense, as it's specialized for explosives. But many that encounter primer (book) will pronounce it as /ˈpɹaɪmɚ/, hence my comment. Only learned readers would be aware that it would even have a different pronunciation.
- Human-potato hybrid (talk) 12:38, 1 December 2022 (UTC)