Morkai5

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Ultimateria 19:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Categories of Catalan words

I noticed you've been adding explicit categories to Catalan words. However, this is rarely necessary. On English Wiktionary it's common practice to have the template that creates the headword/inflection line also add the appropriate category/ies. Inflection line templates include the generic {{infl}} template as well as many language-specific templates such as {{ca-verb}}, {{ca-noun}} and {{ca-adj}}. So you never really need to add a category to an entry unless it is missing an inflection line template; and even in that case you should just add such a template, not the category. —CodeCat 09:52, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, {{ca-noun}} needs a gender, such as {{ca-noun|m}} for masculine. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and one other thing. When you add the template {{ca-verb}}, the first parameter specifies the conjugation type, and the second is the stem. This is the reverse of how the equivalent template {{es-verb}} for Spanish works. For more information (including a list of possible conjugation types), take a look at the documentation for ca-verb. —CodeCat 10:20, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, CodeCat! --Morkai5 11:02, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Translation tables

It seems normal enough to unlink Catalan and Galician, but the bot AutoFormat (talk • contribs) will actually re-link them. It is actually policy (though I can't remember which one). Mglovesfun (talk) 16:53, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

WT:BP is for policy discussions. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:58, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Found it: Wiktionary:Translations/Wikification. I was very surprised to see Faroese in the 'do not wikify' list though, considering it has a lot less speakers and is much less known than Catalan! —CodeCat 17:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Catalan noun forms

Just so you know, Category:Catalan noun forms has been nominated for deletion. That's not a reason not to use it, as it's consider valid until it fails the process. But your input would be most welcome. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:31, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean? My input in the process? Can I vote against the deletion on that page? If it fails the process, all the Catalan noun forms will be erased? Thanks!--Morkai5 11:55, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

No, they will be moved to another category, Category:Catalan plurals. The two categories have almost entirely the same content. You can 'vote' for, against or just make comments. Mglovesfun (talk) 11:58, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I was reading the nomination and I thinks it's something too complicated for me. --Morkai5 17:17, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Basically plurals are either categorized in Category:English plurals (for English, obviously) or Category:English noun forms. Catalan uses both. Which do you prefer, noun forms (formes de noms comuns) or plurals. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Salut d'Arapaima

Salut, Catalano ! Je vois que tu t'es fait toi aussi taper sur les doigts en guise de bienvenue...C'est comme ça à Wiktionary, ils te servent d'emblée une soupe à la grimace pour voir si tu vas tenir le coup ! Donc fais le dos rond, attends que ça passe, ça ira mieux après...Moi, j'ai essayé dernièrement d'inclure des images, et me suis fait sévèrement rabrouer : mes images étaient strongly misleading for the users...Mais je me permets de temps en temps une petite rubrique dans la page "Discussion" , j'apppelle ça Hello, in french , j'y développe mon point de vue, surtout quand le WOTD est un mot d'argot ayant de nombreux équivalents en français; au début ma rubrique m'a attiré quelques railleries, maintenant c'est un silence poliment glacial, mais je continue. Comme j'essaie de traduire tous les jours le "WOTD" dans les 3 langues latines ( fr, es, et it) qui semblaient n'attirer personne, si tu penses devoir me corriger en espagnol, n'hésite pas, mais STP mets donc un mot d'explication dans la rubrique "Résumé de la modification" (au-dessus de la case "Edit", en bas), ainsi ça apparait dans l'historique. Ah , une dernière chose : je ne suis ni lexicographe ni grammairien, juste un amoureux du langage, et des langues d'origine latine en particulier. Et si tu veux plus de détails sur moi, vas voir ma page d'utilisateur sur WP fr. Allez, bon courage, bon vent , un abrazo et adieusatz (comme on dit dans notre Languedoc) y si tu no me lees bien en fr, te hago esa carta en es o en... Arapaima 07:05, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Hombre, y tu "nivel elementario de frances" ?. Te decia que la acogida fria y quisquillosa de los novicios es una especialidad de Wiktionary, sorprendente para nosotros latinos, pero que no hay que desalentarse, y solo seguir con su buena fe y esmero. Pero ya veo que has vuelto en WOTD... Pues, amigo, cuidate y hasta luego (y excusame, no tengo los acentos en este teclado...) Arapaima 08:20, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Olà Rubèn, aqui el Kike. Pues, has entido lo esencial de mi verborrea ! WOTD is "Word of the day" , donde me hallan quasi cada mañana...Y tienes hoy un ejemplo de mi rùbrica "Hello, in french" en discuss. page of WOTD "ewer". Salud y h. luego ! Arapaima 06:55, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Form bot for Catalan verbs

I have upgraded my bot, MewBot, to support Catalan verbs as well. So now, if you find a Catalan verb with some red links in its conjugation table, you can now add them to the list at User:MewBot/feedme, and they will automatically be created when the bot runs next. —CodeCat 22:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Format of accelerated entries

If you really want to change the format of accelerated Catalan entries (without changing them manually), you should talk to User:Conrad.Irwin. By the way, thanks for fixing the gender of vall for me. Ultimateria 23:20, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Mewbot entries

You need to write the entries as # [[dragar]], using templates like {{l}} won't work. The bot only understands [[ ]]. —CodeCat 19:12, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I thought it will be confused by the other languages in the same entry :P Then, why it cannot do the fer forms? Thanks! --Morkai5 19:14, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

No it won't get confused, it just looks for templates with specific names on the page. If you put {{ca-conj-ar}} somewhere in a Spanish section it will work too. :P

Fer doesn't have any of the templates the bot recognises. It still uses the old {{ca-conj}} template directly, because there is no template that really matches it right. Fer is just a weird verb, I haven't gotten around to finding a way to make it work with the other templates yet without overriding half the forms. And of course ser is even worse... —CodeCat 19:24, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Can you check these please?

I added three entries and added pronunciation and rhymes for them too: dutxa, dutxar, dutxar-se. Could you please check to make sure I did it right? I'm not quite sure on the last one... —CodeCat 12:05, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

They're fine, but I have delete the rhymes on -arsə (it's a verb plus a clitic, only that forms have the same rhyme). And I'm thinking on delete the rhymes on -utʃə, because I don't find any words in Catalan with the same rhyme.--Morkai5 11:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I think it would still be useful to keep both of those rhymes. You never know when a poet wants to find a rhyme with dutxar-se. Not all of them are reflexive verbs, for example Barça rhymes with it too right? And if a word has no rhymes then that should be clear from the fact that the rhyme page has just one entry. It's quite likely that if we don't add the rhyme for dutxa, someone else who happens to find a word that rhymes with it will think, 'oh, there are no rhymes, so I might as well not add it'. And so it never gets added at all. —CodeCat 11:21, 23 January 2011 (UTC

You're right! I will fix them ;)--Morkai5 11:23, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Rhymes with final -r

Final -r is not pronounced in some Catalan dialects, but it is in others. I don't really think it's a good idea to group these two together in the rhymes section, because it would make things more difficult for languages that do still distinguish them. In English the same is done, like here: Rhymes:English:-aɪmə(r). —CodeCat 17:24, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

It's true, I should separate them, and do like in other rhymes, showing both pronunciations. But it is only pronounced in one dialect (mine's, otherwise). --Morkai5 17:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't really hurt to split it up into Rhymes:Catalan:-a and Rhymes:Catalan:-a(ɾ), with the first containing words that end in -à and the other words ending in -ar. I think the same should be done for other words as well, since not all dialects have merged unstressed a and e together. —CodeCat 17:35, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

And it seems that some dialects haven't merged unstressed o into u either. And the Balearic dialects have a stressed ə as well. This could be very complicated... —CodeCat 17:55, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I know. Like we say: A poc a poc i amb bona lletra. ;) There are cases of triple e (open in Central, closed in Valencian and neutral in Balearic, like anglès) --Morkai5 17:59, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Maybe for now it's best if we stay with the two dialects that have official standards, central and Valencian. I personally have no idea how Balearic Catalan sounds and I imagine not many mainland Catalans do either, so that would probably lead to a lot of 'wrong' rhymes if we try to include them into the scheme as well. I'm not quite sure on the distinction between è and é though. —CodeCat 18:14, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I am also a little confused by Rhymes:Catalan:-aɾ. Are there some words where all dialects keep the -r? —CodeCat 18:17, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I was comming back home. Yes, it is difficult. Because of that I thought inicially to do rhymes only in Standard Catalan, because there are from 5 to 8 stable dialects. All the Rhyme diccionaries I know work over Standard Catalan. I was thinking about this and maybe it is better to do rhymes only for Standard Catalan.

About -aɾ rhymes, yes, there are words with -r that all dialects keep (except Balearic, I think). They are so difficult to find (I speak Valencian, as you know, and I keep all -r), but almost always are cultisms. --Morkai5 19:44, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Viccionari (Catalan Wiktionary) can do the rhymes for other dialects and we only do them for Standard Catalan. --Morkai5

Balearic Catalan has its Standard as well. It is done by the University of Balearic Islands.--Morkai5 19:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Ses?

What do you think of ses#Catalan? Is this a dialectal version of les or just a mistake? Ultimateria 20:45, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

It's a dialectal version! --Morkai5 11:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Isn't that what they call salat in Catalan? —CodeCat 14:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it is. In Balearic, they change l to s in articles. It also occurs in some Eastern dialects.--Morkai5 16:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I've heard of salat, but I didn't know what it was. Thanks! Ultimateria 20:48, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

botifarra

there is a gesture in Catalan called botifarra. Is it this one? --Lorenax 09:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

I have never heard it personally, but people often says it is the best word for that gesture. --Morkai5 10:04, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

expel·lir

Hi, is the conjugation of expel·lir regular, or does the l·l mess it up? --Lorenax 16:44, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

It is regular ;)--Morkai5 22:12, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

futbolístic

Hello, please check the inflection of futbolístic. I think the accent is removed for the feminine form, not sure. Thanks --Lorenax 19:19, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Done. The accent is not removed--Morkai5 21:25, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

botre and rebotre

Hello again. Can you please add conjugations to:

1. botre
2. rebotre

Thanks. --Lorenax 14:17, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Standard

I don't think we can use 'standard' in pronunciations, as it implies than other pronunciations are not standard. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:22, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

The Catalan Standard is the Eastern Catalan, as it's said by IEC, the principal normativiser institution. But there's no problem, we can change it as will. However I used it in all entries, and it will be a hard work to change them all.--Morkai5 16:24, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Nevertheless, a standard pronunciation should be given to speakers, in my humble opinion.--Morkai5 16:26, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

It could also be called 'Catalonian Catalan' but that is a bit silly. :P —CodeCat 16:45, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

But it isn't really from all Catalonia, only from two of its provinces ;)--Morkai5 19:17, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

escaire

This word is lacking some definitions but I'm not really sure how to describe it. I saw this word in the lyrics of a song where it seems to refer to football, but I don't know what it means: jo també sé marcar gols, i per l'escaire. Could you help please? —CodeCat 16:47, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

It is a translation from the Spanish phrase "por la escuadra". I do not control the football vocabulary, but I think it is a side of the goal. This is really an escaire. I don't think the meaning you are speaking about is so orthodox (if not a barbarism directly from Spanish).--Morkai5 19:17, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

òptim

Surely not the superlative of bo, more like a synonym of it? Mglovesfun (talk) 23:02, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Òptim is used for optimal, but is the old superlative of bo, like in other languages like Spanish (that uses buenísimo instead) and Portuguese, that still uses ótimo.--Morkai5 (talk) 23:04, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah just read optimus, I take back my objection. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:07, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Maybe we can put a "actualment en desús" in the acception. Or maybe "less used". --Morkai5 (talk) 23:09, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Rhymes

Just for the info, as with translations, you can add as many as you like before hitting 'save'. It'll save you quite a lot of time and also mean less edits in the recent changes. Mglovesfun (talk) 09:54, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I usually do save because it often has errors and I lose all the work. But I'll try to save less ;) --Morkai5 (talk) 09:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

jueu

Hi! I'm wondering how this is pronounced exactly. Does it have triphthong -wew- or two syllables with a diphthong -u-ew-? —CodeCat 13:17, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Two syllables: ju-ew, the same that dieu --Morkai5 (talk) 15:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

And is that ju-éw or ju-èw? —CodeCat 15:24, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Juéu =) --Morkai5 (talk) 15:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thank you! —CodeCat 15:33, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

cadascun

The entry originally said that this has no plural, but I find many results on Google for "cadascuns dels ..." and "cadascunes de les ...", so I presume that the plural forms do exist. However, I'm not sure what the plural forms mean in that case. "each one of" makes sense to me, but "each ones of"? Could you explain? —CodeCat 03:03, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

It works like an adjective, it takes the form of the following name (this phenomenon is called concordança in Catalan): cadascuna de les noies (each one of the girls), cadascun dels nois; and for the plural names (that are used as singular but in plural form), it takes the plural form: cadascuns dels pantalons (each one of the trousers), cadascunes de les tisores (each one of the scissors).--Morkai5 (talk) 15:33, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see. So the plural forms are used with things that are really single, but are plural in grammar. —CodeCat 15:51, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I just can't imagine other uses for these plurals right now ;) In addition, there is a tendency in Catalan to these words become singular (young people say "pantaló", "tisora" and "paraigua" instead of "pantalons", "tisores" and "paraigües"). Susprisingly, this change does not ocur in Spanish, even in the places in contact with Catalan --Morkai5 (talk) 16:02, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

kirguís and manx

The plural of these two words is kirguisos and manxos. But it seems very odd to me that those plurals are also used for feminine nouns. "les kirguisos" sounds strange to me, it would seem like it should be "les kirguises" instead. And the feminine singular... I don't know. Kirguís/manx or kirguisa/manxa? What do you think? —CodeCat 18:38, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I've never heard of those words. Why do you say that about plurals? The ONLY official and normative dictionary says nothing about those plurals. If it says nothing, the correct plurals ara the regular ones: les kirguises and les manxes.--Morkai5 (talk) 18:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Wait, it says (I mean, the DIEC) that kirguís is invariable, i.e.: les kirguís, els kirguís, el kirguís, la kirguís.--Morkai5 (talk) 18:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I didn't say it, the entry was already was like this. But it seemed wrong so that's why I asked. You say that kirguís is invariable, but manx has regular forms (manxa, manxos, manxes)? —CodeCat 18:50, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I think so: manx, manxa, manxos, manxes. Why not? The DIEC says it is a regular adjective. There is no problem with this word, it is no used, the used one is manès. The IEC will accept it sooner or later. --Morkai5 (talk) 18:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

The article ca:w:Kirguisos uses kirguisos as the masculine plural (as in the name) but kirguises as the feminine plural ("les muntanyes kirguises") and kirguís or kirguisa as the feminine singular ("idioma kirguís", but ca:w:Kirguís writes "la llengua kirguisa"). So it seems that the adjective may be invariable but the regular forms are also used. —CodeCat 19:04, 23 March 2013 (UTC)