User talk:Imetsia/2020

The following discussion has been moved from the page User talk:Imetsia.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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This page shows conversations on my talk page from 2020.

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Ultimateria (talk) 20:17, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

took the initiative, taken the initiative

Careful: these are not both past participles as your entries claim. took is simple past; taken is past participle. Equinox ◑ 19:01, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

I thought I fixed that issue in my more recent revisions. As far as I can tell, the entries for those pages correctly mark the tense. Am I wrong? Imetsia (talk) 19:05, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

Uncountable

Most nouns are not uncountable. Use "uncountable" if it's some rice, a little paper, much money. Not for anything that you'd use exclusively with "a/an" or "the", like "bought priesthood" (it's "A priesthood"). Don't be misled by the fact that the plural might be rare. Thanks. Equinox ◑ 21:18, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Plurals

Please pay attention to plurals- "indexs" is not correct. DTLHS (talk) 21:41, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

parco giochi

Well, you might be right. I'll leave it alone. It did seem to me that (translating into English) you were mixing up the "game park" and the "games park", and since you are a fairly new non-whitelisted user I was bold enough to make the change. Anyone else got opinions on this? Maybe a native Italian speaker? Equinox ◑ 00:27, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

• I think that this is OK - even the strange plural. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:28, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Quick question

Can you identify this speaker's accent as Italian and not Swiss, so we can label her audio files? I can't find anything in English about pronunciation differences. Also, good work on all the quotations! Italian will have 1000 soon :D Ultimateria (talk) 15:57, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Sounds very much like a standard Italian accent to me, although I'm not an expert in what the Swiss accent sounds like. Also, thanks! Imetsia (talk) 17:26, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

porta-

I question the etymology on these entries. Aren't they just regular Category:Italian verb-noun compounds? Surely e.g. montacarichi is a compound and not prefixed with monta-. Ultimateria (talk) 15:28, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ultimateria: I too was skeptical of it, but Italian dictionaries include porta- as a prefix. There are a few other verbs-that-act-as-affixes that Italian dictionaries include: acchiappa-, salva-, taglia-, posa- are the ones I found just with a quick flip-through. The reason these are prefixes, while monta- is not is because (I assume) there are many words that start with these prefixes, whereas montacarichi seems to be the only one "prefixed" with monta-. Imetsia (talk) 15:44, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Interesting, I had never seen this in Romance dictionaries. I was surprised just now to find porta- in a Galician and a Portuguese dictionary. I guess it's worth keeping then. Ultimateria (talk) 15:49, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Multiword Italian entries

I see you're working through Wiktionary:Todo/multiword Italian lemmas, which I got someone to create. Good job! --Daleusher (talk) 00:10, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! Imetsia (talk) 00:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Causative/factitive constructions

Hello. Are you sure that causative/factitive constructions with fare (fare capire, fare notare) are entryworthy? Some combinations are extremely common in French ("je te ferai savoir que ...", "je te ferai remarquer que ...", which could be translated as "I'll have you know that..."), but imo they're worth usexes, not entries. 2A02:2788:A6:935:E553:100B:D4FC:35E4 14:27, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

It's somewhat of a close question. Terms like fare sapere, fare capire, farsi rispettare, and similar find lemmings in other Italian monolingual dictionaries. Although this is not a definitive reason to include them in Wiktionary, this suggests to me that they are useful to include. This is heightened by the fact that we don't speak this way in English (e.g. "I will make you note that..." is much less natural than "let me point out that..."), which in my view augments the value of keeping them in our dictionary. From that starting point, I reasoned that many fare + [verb] combinations might be less SOP than they may seem. To not allow this to get out of control, I also added the self-imposed restriction that this is only the case if the verb in question is pretty common (so entries like fare articolare, fare riscaldare, etc. should not be included). Note also that I've voted to delete the more obvious factitive constructions like far funzionare and I've even nominated farsi abbindolare for deletion. Even so, these are close calls, and I'm not married to keeping these entries in place. They're definitely not above being challenged for deletion, but I'm inclined to let them remain. Imetsia (talk) 17:48, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

All right, fine by me. 2A02:2788:A6:935:5B:6F9E:5A44:5082 15:12, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

we need you

to become an admin. Then you can delete loads of the Italian crap. Shall I set up a vote? Candle-holding servant (talk) 23:38, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Candle-holding servant: I would certainly love to become an administrator. You can set up a vote if you think I have the necessary qualifications. Imetsia (talk) 23:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Great. Accept at Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2020-10/User:Imetsia for admin please Candle-holding servant (talk) 00:03, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Admins still have to follow due process 🙄 most of the time -Ultimateria (talk) 06:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Verbal "prefixes"

Hi. I see you've created a few entries such as acchiappa- or taglia-, which you call prefixes. I don't think that's right, and we had a talk about this here and here. IMO, we're better off linking to the lemma entries (acchiappare, tagliare) and using Category:Italian verb-noun compounds. Thoughts? PUC – 11:02, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

@PUC: These prefixes all find lemmings in either the Oxford Italian dictionary, Treccani, or Zingarelli (in the case of porta-, all three include it). I think it's more intuitive in Italian to think of the words as prefix+root, rather than marking them as verb-noun compounds. This doesn't go for every single word that starts with a verbal derivative, but if the verbal derivative is used commonly enough, then might we not just as well understand it as a prefix? The Italian dictionaries I mentioned used this rationale, I think, when making that decision. I've even made these points in another discussion on this very talk page. The discussions you mention seem to have been inconclusive. So it might be a good idea to revisit the RFD page and see where the community lies on this issue. Honestly, I've wanted to create many more prefix pages of the same mold, but I've limited myself to what the other dictionaries already include. On another note, see also fuori-, which no other dictionary but us has as a prefix. Point is, our Italian prefix regime is confusing. Imetsia (talk) 14:19, 1 November 2020 (UTC)