Mölli-Möllerö

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Ultimateria (talk) 15:17, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

kääntää (ympäri) edukseen

In merging two essentially identical senses of the verb turn around, I had to merge two differing Finnish translations. Could you review that what I did was good enough, or else repair the damage?  --Lambiam 08:21, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

karkun

Hahaha... no relation. It is nice to see entries expand in unexpected ways. Equinox ◑ 19:47, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

köraa

Hello. You seem to imply that the conjugation listed in informal. Would you be able to expand on that? Pious Eterino (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

User:Surjection wrote in 13:36, 4 January 2020‎ edit summary [bold added by me, obviosly]: "has to be marked as irreg due to the 1st infinitive being irregular; might as well use slang inflection forms". These are the slang inflection forms according to the regular colloquial Finnish / Helsinki slang morphology. In standard Finnish verbs aren't conjugated like this. If this word were adopted into Standard Finnish, its base form would be körata and the conjugation would be as follows:

Inflection of Mölli-Möllerö (Kotus type 73/salata, no gradation)
indicative mood
present tense				perfect
person		positive	negative	person	positive	negative
1st sing.		köraan	en köraa	1st sing.	olen körannut	en ole körannut
2nd sing.		köraat	et köraa	2nd sing.	olet körannut	et ole körannut
3rd sing.		köraa	ei köraa	3rd sing.	on körannut	ei ole körannut
1st plur.		köraamme	emme köraa	1st plur.	olemme köranneet	emme ole köranneet
2nd plur.		köraatte	ette köraa	2nd plur.	olette köranneet	ette ole köranneet
3rd plur.		köraavat	eivät köraa	3rd plur.	ovat köranneet	eivät ole köranneet
passive		körataan	ei körata	passive	on körattu	ei ole körattu
past tense				pluperfect
person		positive	negative	person	positive	negative
1st sing.		körasin	en körannut	1st sing.	olin körannut	en ollut körannut
2nd sing.		körasit	et körannut	2nd sing.	olit körannut	et ollut körannut
3rd sing.		körasi	ei körannut	3rd sing.	oli körannut	ei ollut körannut
1st plur.		körasimme	emme köranneet	1st plur.	olimme köranneet	emme olleet köranneet
2nd plur.		körasitte	ette köranneet	2nd plur.	olitte köranneet	ette olleet köranneet
3rd plur.		körasivat	eivät köranneet	3rd plur.	olivat köranneet	eivät olleet köranneet
passive		körattiin	ei körattu	passive	oli körattu	ei ollut körattu
conditional mood
present				perfect
person		positive	negative	person	positive	negative
1st sing.		köraisin	en köraisi	1st sing.	olisin körannut	en olisi körannut
2nd sing.		köraisit	et köraisi	2nd sing.	olisit körannut	et olisi körannut
3rd sing.		köraisi	ei köraisi	3rd sing.	olisi körannut	ei olisi körannut
1st plur.		köraisimme	emme köraisi	1st plur.	olisimme köranneet	emme olisi köranneet
2nd plur.		köraisitte	ette köraisi	2nd plur.	olisitte köranneet	ette olisi köranneet
3rd plur.		köraisivat	eivät köraisi	3rd plur.	olisivat köranneet	eivät olisi köranneet
passive		körattaisiin	ei körattaisi	passive	olisi körattu	ei olisi körattu
imperative mood
present				perfect
person		positive	negative	person	positive	negative
1st sing.		—	—	1st sing.	—	—
2nd sing.		köraa	älä köraa	2nd sing.	—	—
3rd sing.		köratkoon	älköön köratko	3rd sing.	olkoon körannut	älköön olko körannut
1st plur.		köratkaamme	älkäämme köratko	1st plur.	—	—
2nd plur.		köratkaa	älkää köratko	2nd plur.	—	—
3rd plur.		köratkoot	älkööt köratko	3rd plur.	olkoot köranneet	älkööt olko köranneet
passive		körattakoon	älköön körattako	passive	olkoon körattu	älköön olko körattu
potential mood
present				perfect
person		positive	negative	person	positive	negative
1st sing.		körannen	en köranne	1st sing.	lienen körannut	en liene körannut
2nd sing.		körannet	et köranne	2nd sing.	lienet körannut	et liene körannut
3rd sing.		körannee	ei köranne	3rd sing.	lienee körannut	ei liene körannut
1st plur.		körannemme	emme köranne	1st plur.	lienemme köranneet	emme liene köranneet
2nd plur.		körannette	ette köranne	2nd plur.	lienette köranneet	ette liene köranneet
3rd plur.		körannevat	eivät köranne	3rd plur.	lienevät köranneet	eivät liene köranneet
passive		körattaneen	ei körattane	passive	lienee körattu	ei liene körattu
Nominal forms
infinitives				participles
		active	passive		active	passive
1st		körata		present	köraava	körattava
long 1st1		Possessive forms Person sing. plur. 1st köratakseni körataksemme 2nd körataksesi körataksenne 3rd köratakseen körataksensa		past	körannut	körattu
2nd	inessive2	köratessa	körattaessa	agent3	köraama
		Possessive forms Person sing. plur. 1st köratessani köratessamme 2nd köratessasi köratessanne 3rd köratessaan köratessansa		negative	köraamaton
	instructive	köraten	—	1) Used only with a possessive suffix. 2) Usually with a possessive suffix (active only). 3) Usually with a possessive suffix. Not used with intransitive verbs. Distinct from nouns with the -ma suffix and third infinitive forms. 4) Some uses of the verbal noun are called the 'fourth infinitive' by certain sources (more details).
3rd	inessive	köraamassa	—
	elative	köraamasta	—
	illative	köraamaan	—
	adessive	köraamalla	—
	abessive	köraamatta	—
	instructive	köraaman	körattaman
4th4	verbal noun	köraaminen
5th1		Possessive forms Person sing. plur. 1st köraamaisillani köraamaisillamme 2nd köraamaisillasi köraamaisillanne 3rd köraamaisillaan köraamaisillansa

However, all salata-type verbs are conjugated like this (with consonant gradation and vowel harmony taking place) in the spoken variety of the Helsinki region, even if they are not slang verbs in the first place. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 14:39, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I mean, conjugated like köraa in the table on the page. More or less, someone might disagree on a form or two, as it's not a standardized variety. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 14:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks for the swift explanation. I personally can't really understand what you mean, but I'm not learning Finnish. Feel free to add something relevant to the page köraa (or to revert my edit!) Pious Eterino (talk) 14:45, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Spoken Finnish differs a lot from the Finnish taught at schools. One of the many differences is that whenever a third person singular past tense of a verb ends in a vowel followed by -si in Standard Finnish, the -i at the end is dropped. Thus when in Standard Finnish one writes salasi ("s/he encrypted") it becomes salas in spoken Finnish (both Helsinki slang and the nonslang vernacular variety spoken around Helsinki). Helsinki slang is morphologically more or less identical to the aforementioned nonslang version of colloquial Finnish but has words such as köraa which are not used in other Finnish varieties. That "informal" in the conjugation was there to inform the reader that the morphology is also from slang, not just the word itself, and thus the third person past is listed as köras instead of körasi which would be expected in the standard variety (in which this particular word is not used). Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 14:53, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Ingrian

Heyo, about this edit, I thought you might want to have some background on Ingrian:

Right now, the work I'm doing is adding as much verification to entries as possible, since there is quite some doubt on the validity of Chernyavskij's work. Since quotations are not only used to support attestation, but also to display usage, quotations like this are useful, and since the quote concerns a 30's literary language, which as of yet only seems to support the form hiiri (with final -i), and since Nirvi (which is considered the major work on Ingrian) also supports the -i form - not to mention the fact that the book quoted also contains the nominative form - it can be safely assumed that the form is an inflection of hiiri rather than hiir.

The reason why I or anyone else is not (yet) moving the entry to hiiri, making hiir an alternative form is the fact that while it may not be reliable, Chernyavskij's teach-yourself is the most used source for Ingrian on wiktionary, and so until further consensus on the validity of his book the entries stay at his forms, making it a de facto standard orthography.

That said, if you would like to help with Ingrian, I'd be more than happy to get you started :) Thadh (talk) 19:57, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

In that case, feel free to undo my edit - or alternatively you could create the entry hiirt and put the quotation there. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 09:23, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

tiedosto inflection

As much as KSK thinks the word has inflection class 2, it's easy to see that in practice, the -iden, -ita forms are basically not used; as an example, tiedostoiden gets ~300 ghits (the first one of which is Wiktionary!), while tiedostojen gets over a million. Wiktionary is ultimately a descriptive dictionary, so we should be reflecting actual use. — surjection ⟨??⟩ 11:52, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

...and tekstitiedostojen gets ~2700 ghits, tekstitiedostoiden gets 4. — surjection ⟨??⟩ 11:55, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, it is really bizarre that Kotus accepts both. Maybe a new declension table is needed for -sto nouns, saying that those forms are very rare but acceptable according to Kotus. Another more extreme example is näköistiedosto as "näköistiedostoiden", "näköistiedostoitten" and "näköistiedostoita" all get one hit, namely that Wiktionary page, whereas "näköistiedostojen" and "näköistiedostoja" get a bit less than 800 hits each. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 20:36, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

poliisi is an example of a page that deviates from the inflection type given by Kotus. It's by no means a crime to do so, so I suggest tekstitiedosto be reverted back to the valo type. (If we do add a note, it should be in tiedosto or even in -sto... where a note already exists.) — surjection ⟨??⟩ 01:07, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Done, I also changed the declension of näköistiedosto and expanded the note at -sto. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 10:02, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Block

Hey, kirjoitan tänne kun suomenkieliseen versioon en voi. Olet estänyt IP:n (2001:999:0:0:0:0:0:0/32) enkä pääse luomaan tunnusta fi-wiktionaryyn. Voisitko muuttaa estoa niin, että se mahdollistaa tunnuksen luonnin, tai poistaa sen vaikka päiväksi? Thanks. --Daleq (talk) 15:05, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Tunnuksesi ("Daleq") pitäisi toimia fiwiktissäkin. Voit varmaan alkaa muokkaamaan sillä. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 15:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Muokkaisin kyllä mutta jostain syystä ei toimi... Loin tunnuksen siis aikoinaan en-wikipediassa ja kun eri wikiprojektit on "synkronisoitu" niin käsittääkseni tunnuksen pitäisi toimia kaikissa wikiprojekteissa ja kieliversioissa, mutta ilmeisesti on niin, että koska olet estänyt tästä IP-avaruudesta muokkaukset ja tunnuksen luonnin, niin tunnustani ei ole luotu fi-wiktionaryyn? Ainakin täällä näkyy että tunnusta ei ole rekisteröity sinne. Sinänsä järjestelmä on hyvä, koska kuka tahansa voisi kiertää estoa luomalla vain tunnuksen toisessa kieliversiossa ja palata vandalisoimaan suomi-versiota, mutta sitten käy näin ettei rehellisetkään pääse muokkaamaan... Tein siis tämän tunnuksen jo kuukausia sitten enkä ole aiemmin käynyt fi-wiktionaryssa. Esim. sv-wiktionary ja en-wiktionary toimii normaalisti. Kun yritän kirjautua fi-wiktionaryyn (muihin kieliversioihin olen kirjautunut automaattisesti), tulee vain teksti "Näyttää siltä, että tämänhetkisessä istunnossasi on jokin ongelma". EDIT: kävin vielä äsken testaamassa no-wiktionaryssa, kun menin sinne niin tunnukseni luotiin automaattisesti, ks. loki ja ilmeisesti juuri tämä estyy fi-wiktionaryssa koska tunnuksen luonti estetty tästä IP-avaruudesta. Jos estoa voisi lieventää tuon tunnuksen luonnin osalta niin auttaisi varmaan. --Daleq (talk) 16:12, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Eston asetukset muutettu sellaisiksi, että tunnusten luonti sallitaan. Muutan takaisin, kun teet ensimmäisen muokkauksesi tai kun 24 h on kulunut. Mölli-Möllerö (talk) 18:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)