Qhwans

癐

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發冷

Hello, what kind of Hakka are you referring to for "to go crazy" and "fellow; guy; chap"? The "to go crazy" sense could make sense, but the "fellow; guy; chap" sense is kinda weird. Could you give an example of how the second sense works? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 03:49, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Bao'an Hakka and Sabahan Hakka. For the second sense it can be used as so "你這只發冷正先去那趟咧？", it is used kinda like the equivalent of "家伙" in Standard Mandarin. So, from what I know, it first took the meaning of malaria, which later on took the meaning of "to go crazy", and then slowly used as a noun to mean someone crazy, in which then toned down to "家伙". For the "to go crazy" sense, it can be used as "這只人真係發大冷".

Thanks. I think whenever you refer to these dialects of Hakka, you can either specify them or say that it's dialectal Hakka, since it's not used in the prestige dialects (Meixian and Sixian). — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:52, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Yeap, thanks for that, will do so Qhwans (talk) 17:02, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

穢

Are you sure this character is used for the "disgusting; revolting" sense? How is it pronounced in Malaysian Mandarin and Hakka? How is it used? Are you thinking of 得人畏? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:51, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Yeap, pretty sure, but dialectal Qhwans (talk) 17:01, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

So how is it pronounced in Mandarin? wèi or huì? You put vui for Hakka, which seems more like 畏 (as in 得人畏) to me. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:37, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Well, Sabahans often code switch, it would be pronounced as vui53, as in the Sabahan Hakka pronunciation, but we would pronounce it as wèi if we use Mandarin. But then again, 畏 and 穢 are both pronounced the same in Sabahan Hakka and the pronunciation of vui53 in Sabahan Hakka isn't irregular since from 《说文》，穢 is 於癈切, and 癈 in Sabahan Hakka is fui53. What makes me pretty sure that it is 穢 is because sometimes we would say 污穢，which also means disgusting in Sabahan Hakka. Furthermore, if one were to write 得人畏, wouldn't it be more like frightening instead of disgusting? Oh, yea, and my apologies for putting vui, since it's the Sabahan Hakka (Bao'an Hakka) pronunciation instead of the prestige dialect of Hakka. Qhwans (talk) 23:44, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

得人畏 could mean dirty in some dialects of Hakka (I can't remember which), just as 驚人 can in Hokkien, and then we can extend "dirty" to "disgusting". That was my logic, but it seems like it might be different for the case with Sabahan Hakka. Do Sabahans use 得人畏 for "disguisting"? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:05, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Ahh. Yeap, people do use 得人vui for disgusting, as in 你食飯真係食到好得人家vui個哦。Personally I think that it is 穢 solely based on the fact that elders would use 污穢 for the same meaning, or that you were right and I was wrong, OR the word "vui" is 畏 and only 穢 when used in 污穢 Qhwans (talk) 15:37, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Sabahan Hakka for 拿

Hi, I'm curious as to how 撿 is pronounced in Sabahan Hakka, just to make sure we're dealing with the right character and sense. Would you use 撿 to mean "take" in "He took my book" (他拿了我的書)? The only resource on Sabahan Hakka I have (馬來西亞沙巴龍川客家話研究) tells me there's also 擎, as in 擎緊 (/kʰia¹¹ kin³¹/), meaning 拿著 ("to hold", a slightly different sense). I'm wondering if 擎 can also be used in the above example. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:59, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: 撿 is pronounced as "giam55" in Sabahan Hakka. Yeap, it is literally 拿 as in 渠撿hoi55我個書, or like 幫我撿我個書包 for 幫我拿我的書包, 撿緊 for 拿著。撿 is also used as "to pick up" in Sabahan Hakka. But Bao'an Hakka serves as the prestige form of Hakka in the whole of Sabah, not LongChuan Hakka though, and I've never heard of 擎 being used in this sense though. Oh, and "hoi55" is the perfective particle for Sabahan Hakka, in which I don't seem to know what the character for it is. Qhwans (talk) 22:50, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

@Qhwans: Thanks for clearing all this up. It's kind of my fault for assuming that the Longchuan dialect was the only dialect in Sabah without doing more research. Given that most of the data I've entered for Sabah is based on 馬來西亞沙巴龍川客家話研究, I think we probably should split Sabah into the two dialects in the modules, probably something like Sabah-B for the Bao'an dialect and Sabah-L for the Longchuan dialect.

Now about 拿, 撿 looks like the right character, although I'm not sure about the tone. Is 55 the 上聲 in Sabahan Hakka? About hoi55, I think I've seen people write it as 開, but yeah, not sure about that. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 03:06, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Nah it's fine, yeap splitting them would be better. 撿 is the 去声 here. Qhwans (talk) 12:01, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, I'd expect 撿 to be 上聲, but there might be an exception here. So hoi55 would also be 去聲 then, eh? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:00, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: My bad both 撿 and hoi32 are 上聲 and 55 is a 去聲，I mixed them up for some reason back then. Qhwans (talk) 12:40, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

Sabahan Hakka

Hi, thanks for your additions of Sabahan Hakka to the dialectal synonyms module. When you put them in, could you use "Sabah-B" instead of "Sabah" to indicate that it's the Bao'an dialect? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:54, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Oh yea, my apologies, I've forgoteen about it, but yeap, I'll try reminding myself next time Qhwans (talk) 22:32, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Shijiazhuang

Hi, just wondering if you had a source for your edits for this dialect. It seems to be one of your ancestral languages, but does that mean you have access to a native speaker? If so, are you sure they are from the city proper? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 20:28, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: If by city proper you only mean 長安區、橋西區、新華區 and 裕華區, then no it is not, my apologies, I've forgotten that only the topolects spoken in the city proper are allowed Qhwans (talk) 06:04, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Yup, essentially these districts. If it's outside of the urban area, they should be their own data point. If you don't mind me asking, where exactly are you trying to record the dialect of? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:11, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Well for the ones I've typed they are spoken both south and west of the city proper as far as I know (going in more than this would be personal). By the way, 喃 is the same word as 俺，just a different way of writing, same for 黑介 and 黑家, though 黑介 is used more frequently and I've rarely seen 黑家 used so I'm not really sure why 黑家 was kept instead. The reason why I put it in is because I've seen similar things typed in the Dialectal Synonym Table, an example would be 波勒蓋 and 波拉蓋, both were typed in so I thought maybe you guys would also want to record different ways of writing the same phrase？Quite confused about this. On the other hand, would you agree if I were to put 喃 as an alternative form in the Etymology 1 section of 俺? Qhwans (talk) 13:47, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

We only write things differently if they're pronounced different. For 喃 and 俺, I'm assuming 喃 is trying to reflect a pronunciation with /n-/? 喃 as a variant of 俺 is probably limited to certain varieties, so we could include it as an alternative form in the actual entry (and not the table) (if you have proof of its use). From what I can tell, 黑家 and 黑介 are both referring to the word pronounced something like hēijie, so there would not be a need to include both. I chose 黑家 instead of 黑介 based on the two main sources I use for Shijiazhuang - 河北省志方言志 and 普通话基础方言基本词汇集 - which both use 黑家. Other dialects in the general area also use 黑家. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 23:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: I see, I see, thanks for clearing out my confusion Qhwans (talk) 05:20, 3 September 2020 (UTC)