Open main menu

User talk:פֿינצטערניש

Contents

Welcome MessageEdit

Welcome!

Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contributions so far.

If you are unfamiliar with wiki editing, take a look at Help:How to edit a page. It is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.

These links may help you familiarize yourself with Wiktionary:

  • Entry layout (EL) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard. The easiest way to start off is to copy the contents of an existing page for a similar word, and then adapt it to fit the entry you are creating.
  • Our Criteria for inclusion (CFI) define exactly which words can be added to Wiktionary, though it may be a bit technical and longwinded. The most important part is that Wiktionary only accepts words that have been in somewhat widespread use over the course of at least a year, and citations that demonstrate usage can be asked for when there is doubt.
  • If you already have some experience with editing our sister project Wikipedia, then you may find our guide for Wikipedia users useful.
  • The FAQ aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several help pages that you can browse for more information.
  • A glossary of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common communication issues.
  • If you have anything to ask about or suggest, we have several discussion rooms. Feel free to ask any other editors in person if you have any problems or question, by posting a message on their talk page.

You are encouraged to add a BabelBox to your userpage. This shows which languages you know, so other editors know which languages you'll be working on, and what they can ask you for help with.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! If you have any questions, bring them to the Wiktionary:Information desk, or ask me on my talk page. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: ~~~~ which automatically produces your username and the current date and time.

Again, welcome! --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 06:29, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for creating your username! Just ask if you need any help with Yiddish (or anything else). —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:16, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
Will do, thank you :> Finsternish (talk) 07:19, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

AttestationEdit

The entry for *kvira was deleted because it failed WT:RFV, therefore it should not be given as a translation. Likewise, if supporting evidence cf. WT:ATTEST cannot be found for kvirigi, that translation will also be deleted.__Gamren (talk) 09:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

It's given as a translation because it's in widespread use and "failed" at most on a technicality, considering far more than the number of required citations were given and many of the given citations were from official communications of Esperanto organizations. The entry on the Esperanto Wiktionary remains up and it's probably not going anywhere, so since the translation also links there, its temporary absence from the English Wiktionary until someone with a large number of books bothers to find three durably archived citations should not keep the only valid translation of "queer" from being listed. Finsternish (talk) 09:26, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
The documented history of the word shows it has been in widespread use for over ten years, so it doesn't even qualify as an actual neologism. Finsternish (talk) 09:35, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
If you want our criteria for inclusion changed, you need to create a WT:BP discussion and argue your case there. Simply ignoring the rules is not an option. It doesn't matter that eo.wikt has different standards. You cannot just assume that citations exist; we will reinstate the entry and the translation when and if sufficient evidence is found.__Gamren (talk) 11:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Your criteria say that if a word is clearly in widespread use, it doesn't need three durably archived citations. Again, the citations span over a decade and there are far more than three. I've added even more to the Esperanto entry at this point. It perfectly meets the criteria, and should be listed as a translation even if some overzealous editors felt the need to eliminate the English page. Finsternish (talk) 14:13, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Note also that the Esperanto entry now shows that the word is in Reta Vortaro, which is no small thing; they don't put just any word in there. Finsternish (talk) 14:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
The citations given are:
# two from a bulletin of what was, until recently the only Esperanto LGBT association (side note: the new one has the word "genrokvira" in its name)
# one from Sennacieca Asocio Tutmonda
# one from soc.culture.esperanto
# one from Beletra Almanako, the major Esperanto literary magazine at the moment
# one from the Somera Esperanta Studo, one of two major summer Esperanto courses
# one from TEJO, the Esperanto youth association.
It's patently absurd to make the claim that the word is not in widespread use. Finsternish (talk) 14:21, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
And please note that I never said I wanted the criteria for inclusion changed -- literally the first thing I said was that it was in widespread use, which should have prevented you from having to make a response that assumed I wanted the criteria changed. Finsternish (talk) 14:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
The translation at queer conveys essentially the same information as the entry kvira did (first and foremost: that the word exists), and hence reinstating the translation is not meaningfully different from recreating the entry. All the cites at eo:kvira were found at kvira except the last, and all but one of the others was deemed either unarchived or a mention. Find at least one more cite, and you can make a reverse RFV at WT:RFVN (not exactly conventional, but I'm sure noone'll mind); you may refer to the two websites that ReVo cite, if you like. This is your second explicit warning. If you reinstate the translation at kvira outright, you will be blocked for a few days.__Gamren (talk) 16:05, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
OK. If I can refer to the websites, that works. I'll get to work on restoring it. Finsternish (talk) 20:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
The "widespread use" criterion is rarely invoked and, in my experience, exists to avoid spending time responding to RFVs of words that are obviously attested. If there's been an actual search for (CFI-compliant) evidence of the term and there isn't enough, then the term is apparently not in (sufficiently) widespread use. But I will poke around Usenet (which is durable because it is decentrally archived so content can't be deleted) and Issuu (which enables searching many magazines that are durably archived in libraries) and elsewhere and see if more citations can be found. - -sche (discuss) 19:05, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
It seems that this criterion, in its ambiguity and lack of any applicable standard for determining "widespread use," accidentally leaves a lot of room for plausible deniability when it comes to questions of why certain words are accepted at face value and not others. Finsternish (talk) 23:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
In any case, I would appreciate the help if you wanted to look at Issuu and Usenet. Finsternish (talk) 23:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

להט"בEdit

Please note that the stress you added here was off; I fixed it for you. Often Hebrew words do indeed have primary stress on the last syllable, but that isn't the case here. (I think it's got to do with these being loanwords, but I'm not entirely sure.) — Mnemosientje (t · c) 14:41, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you; this is always appreciated. (Sorry for the delayed response.) פֿינצטערניש (talk) 15:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

InterlinguaEdit

I only just noticed that you also edit Interlingua. Maybe you know this already, but Google Scholar is a very good source for Interlingua (mostly medical texts). ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 15:36, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! I just started finding some similar things on Google Books. פֿינצטערניש (talk) 15:56, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "פֿינצטערניש".