Sbb1413

Ænglisc, Englisc

We don't show the Old English pronunciation dots in titles. — surjection ⟨?⟩ 08:38, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

Headers

I just cleared a module error caused by your use of "==== Descendants ====" instead of "====Descendants====". While in theory something that doesn't change the appearance shouldn't cause problems, in the case of a program like Module:descendants tree that looks for patterns in wikitext you need to be really picky about header formatting. It would be best to get into the habit of never putting spaces or anything else that isn't part of the header name in headers. Also, see WT:NORM. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:03, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Misuse of RfV

You added {{rfv}} to Wuhanvirus, an entry you created. Please don't use the template that way. It is for entries or definitions for terms that one doesn't believe are really part of their language. Presumably you wouldn't have added the entry if you thought it wasn't real. Almost all taxonomic names that appear in databases like ICTV's would also appear in scholarly articles, so they are not routinely challenged by RfV. DCDuring (talk) 15:34, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Topic cat for রসগোল্লা

Hi, I reverted your changing of the category here from Category:bn:Desserts to Category:bn:Foods. I assume you did this because the Desserts category was a redlink, right? If that's the case then let me tell you it is very easy to make these categories; you just need to use {{auto cat}}. If in doubt you may want to preview the page after adding {{auto cat}} before saving it, as it will produce an error if it can't match the category you're trying to create to the patterns and classifications defined in the relevant Lua modules. That could happen if, for example, you make a typo in a category name, or the category just hasn't been defined in the system yet. Acolyte of Ice (talk) 14:49, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:51, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

আমেরিকা

Hi, Sbb1413, could you translate the usage notes of this entry into English, idk why someone decided to let a Bengali text expecting non-Bengali speakers to understand it. Rodrigo5260 (talk) 12:50, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

I'll manually translate the section, based on English America. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:56, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 15:06, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Module:number list/data/bn

This is the predictable result of removing things from such a module. Please make sure to always check CAT:E and fix any errors. Better yet, look up the entries for the things you change and try to anticipate what could go wrong so there are as few module errors as possible, and so you have a strategy for dealing with the unavoidable ones. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 19:11, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying the issue. Since উনতিরিশ is an alteration of উনত্রিশ, I will create the latter and treat the former as a synonym. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:23, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Errors

Hello. Your edits on Module:bn-translit cause lots of errors. Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:00, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

I was trying to fix the inherent vowel issue in the module by using codes from Module:as-translit. However, turns out it doesn't work. So I have reverted them. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 05:02, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

There are still a few pages in CAT:E, probably as a result of these edits. Could you take a look? 70.172.194.25 05:51, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I've removed the line that rendered জ় as "z", since it is not the sound that occurs natively in Bengali. I'll remove the instances of জ়. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:46, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

@Sbb1413 Hi - could you perhaps test these changes in a sandbox, instead of making hundreds of changes? It’s totally fine to make mistakes, but it may be better to make these kind of test changes somewhere that doesn’t impact lots of entries. Theknightwho (talk) 15:31, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

@Sbb1413 This keeps happening... Theknightwho (talk) 18:53, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

There's no Bengali entry in CAT:E. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:24, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@Sbb1413 Yes, but there were lots when I wrote those comments. Theknightwho (talk) 12:03, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Some foreign-loaned words in Bengali are often pronounced with "z" than "j", for example নজরুল. I think you should keep the IPA auto-pronounciation of that sound as itself, instead of just the sound "j" for everything. (Sorry, I am not in a mood to copy-paste the IPA character for "j".) 103.112.54.39 17:43, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

I used to pronounce almost all non-English loanwords with /dʒ/ (I pronounce the name নজরুল as /nodʒɾul/ but ব্রাজিল as /bɾazil/). I don't understand what you mean by "auto-pronunciation". It is actually hard (if not impossible) to render the /z/ phoneme in Module:bn-IPA automatically without manual entry. Besides, as I may have pointed out, /z/ is not a common phoneme to most Bengalis and I use it in English loanwords only. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 17:52, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

See Template:bn-IPA, where I have added instructions for manual input. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi, the pronunciations resulting from your template changes are very accurate, honestly speaking. It is really gladdening to see a separate pron. for the Dhakaiya tongue, since it is a mix of Standard [Rarh-type] Bengali with various Vanga-type words. However, is there any way to suppress the /ʃ/ phoneme in words where it's never pronounced (like সাভার, বিশ্রী, শৃঙ্খলা, আস্তে), while using the {bn-IPA}^{(removed a pair of brackets to not produce results)} template? Looking forward for your reply and/or solution. Thanks. 103.112.54.39 06:25, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

The /ʃ/ phoneme may occur in the words you have cited, despite being rare (Chatterji, 1921). Therefore, it is treated as the secondary pronunciation in those cases. For instance, the word বিশ্রী has both /bisɾi/ and /biʃɾi/ as possible pronunciations. Here, /bisɾi/ is the primary pronunciation and /biʃɾi/ is the secondary one. Same case for সাভার, আস্তে etc. There's no need to suppress the /ʃ/ phoneme. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:41, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. 103.112.54.39 06:45, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I think it is very unnecessary to use this obsolete letter [জ়] when it’s never really used. Also, for your information, the /z/ phoneme is as rare as you once told me, and now it seems you are adding it to the Standard (Rarh, Dhaka) IPA ones as well, when we also don’t pronounce it — literally! No one does, except the people with more rural connections as villagers speak the Vangiya dialect, which uses that phoneme more. I hope you understand that this letter [জ়] is as obsolete as those for the -li-, -lli- & -rri- sounds, which are obviously not on the keyboard also. 103.112.54.39 10:39, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't know whether it is obsolete or not, since I found the usage of জ় in various publications to render the /z/ sounds in English loanwords. Yes, /z/ is rare in standard dialects and found natively in the Vangiya dialect. However, in standard dialects, it is used to pronounce English loanwords like ব্রাজিল, একজিবিশন, আলেকজান্ডার, etc. (pronouncing them like /bɾadʒil/, /ekdʒibiʃɔn/ /alekdʒanɖaɾ/ sounds uneducated). I will limit the usage of জ় to English loanwords if necessary, but there are various Bengali entries that have used <z>. Therefore, I have coded Module:bn-IPA so that both /z/ and /dʒ/ is displayed if a loanword is pronounced with /z/. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 10:48, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

It's okay to give the /z/ phoneme but I don’t think we should give an obsolete and unused letter as জ় in a quite professional website like Wiktionary. Whether those publications use it or not doesn’t matter, the literary method of common people like you and me matter. We never write that letter in any letters or emails or essays or whatever. This is not like slang English type where non-standard words like tho (for though) can be used just for pronunciation's sake. 103.112.54.39 10:53, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's true. But there are languages like Arabic where vowel diacritics are not commonly written (in emails, essays etc.). This causes a problem while romanising Arabic words. The compromise in Wiktionary is to include those diacritics in Arabic entry titles. The same problem is observed in Bengali, where জ pronounced/z/ is not commonly written with a nuqta (a dot below a consonant). However, unlike Arabic, I have not used জ় in entry titles but instead in headwords ({{bn-noun}}, {{bn-adj}}, {{bn-verb}} etc.). Latin entries also do similar things with vowel macrons. --Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 11:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I know but it still feels unconventional because we are not like Hindi and that letter gives alludes to a "Hindi-fied" Bengali when it’s a different language. Also, the /z/ is also pronounced in words like নামায, রোজা, আজাদ very often. So what's the point, again, of adding three is unconventional letter? Nothing is confusing when your pronunciation and letters are alright. 103.112.54.39 11:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Oops, I meant to say the /z/ is NOT pronounced in those words often. 103.112.54.39 11:08, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for suppressing that phoneme. Because it is not universal for the Bengali sibilants and /s/ is the only one used for some words like আস্তে. 103.112.54.39 11:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

53 of the 56 module errors in CAT:E are yours and have been there since yesterday. Please fix Module:bn-translit immediately. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:53, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz, Sbb1413: I've protected the module and reverted to Special:Diff/72884846 version. I've told you before to not edit the module in prod, but you clearly didn't listen. The module's edit history is also garbage (1000+ edit with no summary) with your trial and error approach. Fix the module in your user space. I became impatient. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 15:31, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm extremely sorry for inconvenience. Anyway, I'll experiment my chanes at Module:bn-translit/sandbox and suggest changes at the talk page instead. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:04, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Chuck Entz, Fenakhay There's no module error at Module:bn-translit/sandbox/testcases. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:08, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

WT:BN TR

Hello, I have noticed you thay had changed the page a lot. Is there any source from where you had been changing the page? There are a lot of entries following the previous rules. Which one is correct? Meghmollar2017 (talk) 07:37, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

The current rules as I have established in WT:BN TR is correct, since the current rules are based more on spelling. The previous rules based on pronunciation are altered by me and I have branded them as WT:bnPR transcription. The bnPR transcription should be used in the |ts= parameter of a headword template or a link template. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:46, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

@Sbb1413, I think that is not my question. My question is what is the source you are changing the pages from. You can not alter any of the established rules, which cause mass change in the whole language entries, all by yourself. Did you discuss with anyone else in the Wiktionary before changing? Please ping me when you reply so that I get notified. Regards - Meghmollar2017 (talk) 15:24, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

@Meghmollar2017 In my early changes, I had used Wiktionary talk:Bengali transliteration before making changes. However, since no one responds to my proposal, I became bold and eventually made unilateral changes to the whole system without any discussion. I may revert the changes and put them as a proposed translit system if we have enough active fellow editors to discuss. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 15:30, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

The major changes to the system are to make the translit system more faithful to the orthography than pronunciation and to change the way how we render inherent vowels. According to WT:Transliteration, transliteration is the "rendering of written text from one writing system into another, letter-by-letter, or character-by-character for non-alphabetic scripts." However, it seems that some editors don't agree with the definition (as evidenced by WT:AS TR, WT:HI TR and WT:RU TR) and the consensus needs to be changed. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 15:35, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

For what I worth, I have changed the codes in Module:bn-translit to follow the status quo ante. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:38, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

To state clearly, I am not asking you to revert your changes, neither do I agree on your point. I was asking for the base system (that is published elsewhere) which I thought you were using. (There are plenty of such systems like NLK, Omniglot, Bangla Academy etc.) I am not sure whether Wiktionary allows original research in this level. There must had been a clear consensus before mass-changing the whole language system. I understand there aren't many active editors who actively visit the talk pages, but there is Beer parlour for such discussions. At this point, I would like to mention @Inqilābī and @Svartava for their opinion. Meghmollar2017 (talk) 14:48, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

The romanisation scheme I was using (which is available at User:Sbb1413/bn-translit) is based on ISO 15919, which is close to Omniglot and NLK. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 15:44, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I just wanted to know which areal dialects are you referring to as Eastern Vanga. Is it referring to:

• all dialects spoken east of the Padma-Jamuna (and the lower Meghna) rivers, or
• the dialects in Sylhet and Chittagong Divisions (and the colloquial in Tripura), or
• something else?

103.112.54.39 06:59, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

The second one. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:02, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I guessed it also. 103.112.54.39 07:03, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Bengali inflection templates

I noticed the Bengali inflection templates still use the old transliteration, could you try to fix that whenever you can? Rodrigo5260 (talk) 20:37, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm fixing them gradually, so be patient. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

ok 👍 Rodrigo5260 (talk) 11:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

confidentally

Hi. By your edit summary, you created this "based on accidently/accidentally". English is a very curious language and doesn't have patterns. It's not appropriate to make a "guess" like this (especially when "accidently" is a rare or weird form). Please don't do this when you aren't a native speaker. Thanks. Equinox ◑ 09:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, but "confidentally" still occurs as a misspelling of "confidently". Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:05, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't consider this a "misspelling" because it cannot be pronounced that way. It's a typo (keyboard error). Equinox ◑ 09:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for distinguishing between a misspelling and a typo. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:07, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

That is: misspelling "poppy" (flower) as "popy" is plausible; but misspelling "confidence" as "congidence" is not (it's a keyboard error and couldn't be spoken the same way). tally (/t/) doesn't sound like tially (/ʃ/). If you want to create a "misspelling" entry then you can, but it won't help anybody. Equinox ◑ 09:09, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for clarification and I will be careful while editing on Wiktionary. Happy editing! Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:12, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

changes to English module

I notice you made a lot of undiscussed changes to the module. Many of them are wrong, e.g. the merger of UK and British is still a topic of discussion in the BP that you seem to have ignored. Also the European Union is not a type of English. I noticed many other changes as well that are questionable. Please discuss your plans in the future *BEFORE* making such changes. Benwing2 (talk) 22:25, 24 April 2024 (UTC)