Wiktionary:Information desk/2021/August

Dictionaries mentioned in Wiktionary:Neologisms edit

"Wiktionary:Neologisms" mentions "six major dictionaries of the English language". What are their names? Wikinights (talk) 11:48, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My guess is OED, Collins, and Chambers for en-GB and Webster's Third, Random House and AHD for en-US, but I have no idea if those are the six DAVilla had in mind when he wrote that. —Mahāgaja · talk 12:02, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we should remove the word "six". Equinox ◑ 12:05, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Typo edit

Hi, I'm not sure if this the right place to post this.

In the Appendix:Lithuanian Swadesh list, the translation for "to hit" is written as "mūšti", when it should be "mušti" (without a macron). The list is a template so I'm not sure how to edit it. Thanks! Etoza (talk) 14:44, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Try editing Module:Swadesh/data/lt. — sur jec tion ⟨??⟩ 14:46, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Thank you! Etoza (talk)

What are the benefits of joining Wiktionary ? edit

Can we improve the site by adding videos and audios of music to attract more customers ?

It's a free dictionary of words, not a commercial gimmick to get paying "customers". Equinox ◑ 12:23, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

geminated affricates edit

Could [t͡sː] in square brackets mean anything other than [tsː] ? Dngweh2s (talk) 15:32, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It could, but it would be unfortunate to use [t͡sː] to mean [tt͡s]. —Mahāgaja · talk 06:29, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sus edit

There should be the full form sustainable mentioned too

Romance quotes: Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, French, Romanian edit

Added a few quotes to Spanish productora, Portuguese produtora, Italian produttrice, French productrice, Romanian producătoare. Is there anybody who could check it, please? --16:55, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Double edit edit

How come this happens? (diff / diff) ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 11:05, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese question on sortkeys edit

Hello, I was looking about cleaning up Category:Japanese terms with homophones by adding sortkeys to all of the terms that are currently sorted under kanji — i.e. not given a hiragana reading to be sorted by. My question concerns whether terms should always be sorted under unvoiced kana — i.e. so that 伝(でん)記(き) (denki) would be given the key てんき, the initial kana devoiced despite its actual pronunciation. Currently, there are terms such as 瞳(どう)孔(こう) (dōkō), which respectively has the sortkey とうこう (again, unvoiced first syllable for the sortkey), seemingly supporting this idea; however, there's also e.g. 母(ぼ)音(いん) (boin), which is contrarily filed under ぼいん, not ほいん as I would have assumed. How should it be? Thanks. Kiril kovachev (talk) 20:40, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can't think of an argument why unvoiced sorting would be preferable. Since homophony is about pronunciation, one would expect voicing to be a significant aspect. 解ける and 溶ける (とける) are homophone, but 退ける (どける) is not. --Lambiam 08:32, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Lambiam I can tell you that, e.g. in the NHK Pronunciation Accent Dictionary, words are sorted based on this principle. There are no distinct voiced and voiceless headers, and e.g. ホニュウ (哺乳) and ボニュウ (母乳) appear right next to each other in the dictionary. It makes sense to separate them, in the end, but it equally makes sense not to, which is why I was trying to find out if we had a policy on this. Kiril kovachev (talk) 11:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CAT:Japanese nouns at least doesn't seem to have any separation of voiced and voiceless. Even a hiragana entry like であいがしら with no specified sortkey at all gets automatically sorted under て; there is no で. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:24, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Mahagaja Thanks a lot! And, if that's the case, then I can enter in sortkeys for homophones voicelessly, I suppose? Kiril kovachev (talk) 11:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

An update. Wiktionary:About Japanese confirms what I thought. Dakuten is sorted with unvoiced, although with a ' added to the end of the sortkey such that it appears after unvoiced. Handakuten is sorted with '' at the end. Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for your help. Kiril kovachev (talk) 19:52, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How do I link to a specific section on a Wiktionary entry? edit

Hi! My name is Christian, and I am an administrator for the English language version of a project called Vikidia (verify here), and I am writing to ask for your help because I can't remember how to do something! Occasionally, when I am writing posts and messages to users (most of whom are children aged 8-13), if I have to use words which are a little more complex than I'd like, I cross-wikilink them to here, so that the user can understand what I mean. Sometimes your pages have lots of different sections, and I can't remember how to take the user clicking the link, straight to a specific section (for example, on verbatim, taking the user straight to the adverb section so that it opens directly on the meaning, instead of a page full of sections to click on!) If someone could show me how to do this, I'd really appreciate it! Thank you, DaneGeld (talk) 22:45, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

While you could link to anything that has a line in the Table of Contents at the top of the page (using the link from the TOC), that's usually a bad idea if you want to be sure the link is reliable for any period of time: on a wiki, things get added, removed, and moved around, which means the same link suddenly points to something entirely different.

The best way is to make sure the place you want to link to has a {{senseid}} template, and link to the entry with [link to the page]#[whatever the senseid outputs] (see the {{senseid}} documentation for details). Chuck Entz (talk) 23:06, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Chuck. That would be the best way to do it I'm sure. Unfortunately, I looked over the documentation for that and, quite simply, it goes way over my head. I have no idea how to implement that or where to put it, what to do with it... Where would I look to find the senseid and check if the definition I want, has one? I can't see that tag on the verbatim entry, which is where I actually needed it. Any chance you could explain it to me or would it be better to direct it to MediaWiki, since they wrote the coding? DaneGeld (talk) 07:40, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Most entries don't have the {{senseid}} tag; verbatim doesn't. You'd have to add it yourself. —Mahāgaja · talk 11:48, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. So can anyone explain to me in simple terms how I add one/create one/what I have to do, please? I do not understand the documentation as it's not clear. Does anyone on here have experience of adding these please? DaneGeld (talk) 14:22, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@DaneGeld: Basically, you do the following.

Go to the entry you want to link to.
Click the Edit button at the top right of the page.
Scroll down to the definition you want to link to.
On the definition line, add the text {{senseid|en|link target name}} between the number sign # and the definition that comes after it.
Now change the text link target name to a very short summary, description, or identifier of the definition in question. This is the text that your link will contain.
Click Publish changes at the bottom of the page to save it. Now you can link to your definition using a link formatted like this (replace ‘entry_name’ with the entry name and ‘link_target_text’ with the text you entered in the last step): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/entry_name#link_target_text.

Alternatively, if you want to just link to a section the quick and dirty way without bothering with {{senseid}}, you can also link to, say, an Adverb section like this: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/entry_name#Adverb. However, keep in mind what Chuck said above about links made with this method being unreliable over time. — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 15:10, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

holonym edit

Question: Under Antonyms: "(term that denotes a whole): meronym". Should that not be "term used to denote a thing that is a part of something else"? (as on menonym page) OR "of a term that denotes a whole: meronym"? 2003:CE:9745:5A89:3C63:EA87:3D31:C7DA 09:32, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As presented it is confusing. The use of {{sense}} is meant to disambiguate between several senses of the headword, which in this case is the word holonym. So the intention is that meronym is an antonym of a word that means “a term that denotes a whole”. For a use in which the disambiguation is needed, see the antonyms of growth. --Lambiam 12:55, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dogrib varieties edit

May someone please edit the table on Category:Dogrib language to add a "Varieties" row with the values "Tłı̨chǫ Yatıì" and "Wıı̀lıı̀deh Yatıı̀". Thanks! --Arctic.gnome (talk) 14:50, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Arctic.gnome:

Done —Mahāgaja · talk 15:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

all together edit

Hi. Can anybody add example sentences in all together? --Vivaelcelta (talk) 16:36, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve added some, but have the uneasy feeling these are all a sum-of-parts, like all together can mean “all combined” simply because ”combined” is one of the meanings of together. And we are missing an idiomatic sense with negative polarity (“he really sounds like he is not all together”^[1]). --Lambiam 12:07, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

play the advantage edit

Can anybody check the caption "Referee Héctor Baldassi extends his arms to signal that play the advantage" in play the advantage? I think it has mistakes. --Vivaelcelta (talk) 17:11, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Is the use of the term restricted to association football – in which the label should be. more specifically, “(soccer)” – or is it used more generally? BTW, what is a good way of indicating in the definition line that the subject of the verb is supposed to be a referee? By {{lb|en|sports|of a referee}}, or is there a better way? --Lambiam 11:21, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Translations of play the advantage edit

The current translations are all nouns, which I’d translate back into English as advantage law. Can I simply remove these translations? In Italian sources, I see uses of assegnare il vantaggio. The current Portuguese and Spanish translation have entries here (lei da vantagem and ley de la ventaja), both of which have been assigned the PoS Noun but are defined as “play the advantage”, which is a verb. --Lambiam 11:36, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]