User talk:EncycloPetey

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Christmas competitionEdit

I seem to remember that you were behind some of the past Yuletide festivities at Wiktionary... are you going to set something up this year? (Please?) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:21, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Much as I'd like to, I just don't think I'll have the time this year. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
OK... I guess I'd better get going with something. Do you at least have any really excellent ideas? (Even though I'm not Christian, I really want to have this not be passed over this year, even if Wonderfool ends up winning.) —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:26, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
If I'd come up with a good idea, I'd likely have tried to get it rolling, but I just haven't been thinking about it nor had the time to do so. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:27, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Well, that's not exactly holiday spirit... but I understand. Thanks anyway —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:38, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Lately, I've been far more active on Wikisource, and we're having to cope their with a major software glitch introduced in the latest update. A glitch that makes it impossible to access the text layer of an uploaded DjVu file, which is one of the more critical issues. It means that we had to abandon the plan to work on Vanity Fair as the December collaboration, among other things. I was also asked to keep an eye on certain things, as I've recently been made an admin over there, and one of the regular admins who organizes the Proofread of the Month has had to be away for several days. Besides all that, November is the month of the great drive to finish off works that have been hanging around for a while without being completed. So, I've been a bit busier over there than usual, and just drop in here a bit each week as things come up that I feel the urge to do. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:30, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Beware, miserly neglect of your Wiktionary word quota will lead to a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Pluperfect. Equinox 02:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
The Ghost of Christmas Future Perfect visited me, but I still don't when I will have been scared by it. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:36, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
And the Ghost of Christmas Past Contraconditional would have visited me, but it knew I'm Jewish.​—msh210 (talk) 07:25, 4 December 2012 (UTC)


Can you record the pronunciation of the word muffin please ? Fête (talk) 20:44, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Done. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:36, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot ! Fête (talk) 17:09, 6 December 2012 (UTC)


Can you record the pronunciation of the name Nguyen please ? Fête (talk) 17:18, 6 December 2012 (UTC)


Can you record the pronunciation of the word restaurant please ? Fête (talk) 02:20, 9 December 2012 (UTC)


Can you record the pronunciation of the word "women" with an American accent please ? Fête (talk) 22:25, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

rollback in error on Template:la-decl-2ndEdit

I believe this rollback of Fsojic's edit was in error. Pengo (talk) 05:08, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

No. Interwiki links should be included in a documentation sub-page and not in the template proper. --EncycloPetey (talk) 10:13, 16 December 2012 (UTC)


Samsung is also pronounced /ˈsæm.sʊŋ/. See Fête (talk) 20:29, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I believe that website is wrong, or is not using a native English speaker. There is no way to check up on them, anyway, so it's not a good source for information. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:31, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Certain varieties of Irish English, including Dublin English, lack the phoneme /ʌ/ and use /ʊ/ in its place. —CodeCat 20:33, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Then they might pronounce the word that way. If so, then the pronunciation should be marked for the appropriate region where that pronunciation is used. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:34, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Here is a video with /ˈsæmsʊŋ/ in Ireland, by a representative of Samsung no less: [1]. Note also that he says other as /ˈʊdəɹ/ which demonstrates the same thing. —CodeCat 20:40, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

In British English, it's pronounced /ˈsæmsʊŋ/ ? Fête (talk) 21:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Is it? I'd be surprised. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:07, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


In Quebec French, fête is pronounced "fight". Fête (talk) 21:13, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Why are you telling me this? This is a non sequitur. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:15, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

See Fête (talk) 21:24, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Again, why are you posting this information on my talk page. I do not understand the purpose in giving me this information. What is your objective? Why should I care? --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

chow meinEdit

Can you record the word chow mein please ? Fête (talk) 22:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Mason–Dixon Line ‎Edit

Actually, according to w:MOS:DASH, the wiktionary entry should be using an endash, if we followed Wikipedia's rules on how to dash here, so shouldn't such forms exist as redirects to the ASCII dash forms used here? (or as full page entries, if you'd prefer) According to Wikipedia's rules, wiktionary's entry is wrong. -- 01:02, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

But why do those rules matter? —CodeCat 01:03, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
It shows an alternate form, so as such we can have a page at Mason–Dixon Line (Mason-Dixon Line on wiktionary), instead of having it be deleted. As to it being a redirect or an entry, I'll leave that up to you, since I thought it didn't really need a separate entry, but a redirect would do. If you cut and pasted such a form into the searchbox, it would lead to a searchpage, instead of the entry. The rules on wikipedia exist because there's been grammar pedantic editors at wikipedia who have been renaming all articles away from using ASCII dashes to use Unicode dashes on Wikipedia for several years now (most of the things left with the generic ASCII dash are articles that use hyphens).
Personally, I do prefer the ASCII dash form, since it's actually what people type, instead of what a typesetter or copyeditor places on a page.
w:Wikipedia:Hyphen luddites show the philosophical debate about the use of hypens and dashes on Wikipedia
-- 01:13, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Having been more active on WP lately, I've seen the hyphen-vs-dash edit war which has been raging there (it's hard to miss, because its participants shop it to every forum they can), and I'm wary of it spilling over into Wiktionary. It's my experience and preference that Wiktionary always uses the ASCII hyphen in pagenames; Wiktionary also uses ASCII apostrophes and quotation marks in pagenames (in English and French, at least). Wiktionary has redirects like l’habit ne fait pas le moine to accommodate interwiki links to fr.Wikt, which uses such non-ASCII apostrophes. But Wiktionary doesn't have redirects for all typographical variants, e.g. we expressly don't redirect fiſh to fish. So, whether to have redirects from dash forms to hyphen forms is something that should be discussed in the BP. :b Should Wikipedia base its MOS on us? Probably not. - -sche (discuss) 01:58, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


creationism is not a Christian-specific doctrine. It is also present in Judaism and Islam and other Abrahamic religions. I have therefore reverted you there.Pass a Method (talk) 09:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

"Abrahamic theology" is neither a standard context label nor a category (nor should it be). There are at least two possible ways to introduce the change you are trying to make, while avoiding that problem: (1) use (Christian theology, Judaism, Islam), which is clear but a bit distracting, or (2) use (theology) and specify which theologies at the end of the definition. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:16, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I chose the second one because the first tag was worded awkwardly. Pass a Method (talk) 20:57, 30 December 2012 (UTC)


I would like for you to comment here.Pass a Method (talk) 09:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)


Why did you delete my entry speustic? There was nothing wrong with it. 15:08, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

The principal problem with it was that you made it up. You can add it to WT:LOP, if you wish. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:54, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Semper has noted that the term is in the OED, 2nd ed, but we have no quotations, and I could find none. I do not have access to the OED2, and so can't verify this for CFI (it might be a dictionary-only word, althoguh I'm less inclined to believe that's the case if it's in the OED). --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:22, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
OED2 was not excessively concerned about use, and there are dozens of words from it listed at Appendix:English dictionary-only terms. The only reason that could be helpful is that they had a charming habit of listing cites, but I have a suspicion that the OED is not likely to find a full three uses that we can't. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:39, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Shrinking Wikipedia linksEdit

I (Hlmswn) have just received an email from which would seem (though the profusion of URLs within it has greatly confused me) to at least be strongly associated with you.

Through one of these URLs I found that I am not a User. However, as a non-user I have for some months been adding quotes in various places using short excerpts from books I happen to be reading. As I became more familiar with the process of adding quotes I have been tidying up the quotes and the formatting of their meanings.

Also I have been tidying up some of the links to Wikipedia. Sometimes the URL is right up the top where it impliedly would be relevant for all languages, though the link is specifically to !! So I would sometimes shift it into just after the "English" heading. If the link was specific to one particular meaning I would shift it to that meaning.

One thing that irked me a lot was the frequent use of {{wikipedia}} instead of the briefer {{pedia}}. The smaller one is quite adequate for clicking on, does not complicate the formatting of nearby text and illustrations, and takes up much less space, thus allowing more of Wikipedia to be on the screen at the same time. Furthermore, it is appropriate to be put as close as possible to the meaning or meanings it would illuminate. Putting it down in "See also" is a waste of time.

In other words, I strongly disagree with your ruling. However, as I am a non-User and you apparently are a privileged editor, I will no longer shrink links. However, please do not expect me to go back over the many hundreds of additions I have made and reverse my changes. As someone in their 80s I fear I do not have enough time to waste in that way. ( 02:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC))

I did not send an e-mail. I posted on your talk page. It is unfortunate that you are asking other people to clean up the mess that you have made. It shows that you are not willing to take responsibility for your own actions, and that you expect to waste the time of other editors, who will have to do the job for you. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:31, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I can take a hint. Please remove Hlmswn from your system. But I would suggest that in future you offer anyone joining Wiktionary links to tuition about the culture of Wiktionary and warn them that they might not find that culture either agreeable or optimal.

You were given such a list of links. They're at the top of your talk page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:38, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Please, please have me removed as a User. Until you came along I delighted in feeling that I was helping a good global cause. You have made me feel that I am regarded as an invader. Understand that I was a systems engineer for thirty years before I retired to a teaching job in 1988. I am not exactly ignorant at judging and designing system interfaces.

IPA fixEdit

Sorry about those mistakes, my brain must have been on cruise control. Thanks for catching my mistake. Speednat (talk) 21:44, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Non sibi sed patriaeEdit

FWIW, "by" is translated with the ablative, and this is in the dative. Secondly, patria means "fatherland" most literally, and is not used for one's family. Wikipedia takes an interesting route by eliminating the pronoun altogether to match the grammatical ambiguity of the original, as Not for self, but for country, but that's semantically the same. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:18, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

If you take a look again at the edit history, I've already deleted my later addition, with an edit comment that I prefered your translation. ;) --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:25, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Ah, yes. Incidentally, I find it ironic that the anon didn't just bother to Google it. But any Latin practice is good Latin practice. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:29, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
I know some teachers who might disagree with you on that. ;) --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:36, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Linguae mortuae semper vivant! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 23:44, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


Is definitely not a word. Even wikiedit has a red squiggly line under it.

The absence of a word from a spellchecker database does not negate its existence. The entry for integrous has citations demonstrating both its existence and its use. --EncycloPetey (talk) 07:22, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Brazilian PortugueseEdit

  • Is this your native language? We desperately need a good contributor for Brazilian Portuguese. --EncycloPetey 00:23, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
    • Affirmative. Anything you need, contact me. --User:Lukenji 17:00, 23 January 2013


I really BSed the templates here, but I couldn't think of another way to get all the information in. What do we normally do for adjectives of one ending that work for all genders but inflect in the first declension? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 00:22, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

You did it right. The adjective does work with all genders, but only has a first-declension inflection. --EncycloPetey (talk) 09:18, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
But look at the headword line: it claims it's third declension! Do we need a {{la-adj-1st}} template? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 01:58, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
This sort of thing is so rare, I don't think it's worth having a separate template. I've recoded the headword line using {{head}}. It might be nice to amend that template to accept a "postscript", such as we have here. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:45, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
That's a little bit... unschön. There are a bunch more -gena and -cola adjectives like this, so maybe a generalized template for weird Latin adjectives in in order to cover any possibilities without resorting to {{head}}. What do you mean by "postscript"? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:26, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
The bit listing the declension that comes after the {{head}} template, because that template currently does not support text after the parenthetical information. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:03, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Well... it's not worth further complexifying {head}. If you're fine with the current setup, then I can live with it. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:27, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Latin 2nd declension -ius vocativeEdit

Hello. I am an administrator in the Spanish Wiktionary (Wikcionario), and am trying to refine our Latin declension templates. I noticed your participation in the discussion page for template la-decl-2nd, and was wondering if you knew for certain when the vocative singular for -ius second-declension nous ends in -ie, and when it's just -i.

- Wikipedia says it's -i,
- Bennet says it -ie (except for some proper and irregular nouns),
- wiktionary uses -ie some of the time (fluvius, genius, sagittarius), but not always (filius, simius, aquarius),
- the Latin wiktionary uses -i most of the time (filius, commentarius)
- and this source shows both most of the time, but not for genius.

I would really appreciate your insight! Thanks in advance, --Edgefield (talk) 20:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't use the vocative much, but my practice is to use -e for -us nouns, -i for -ius nouns, -(i)e for adjectives in both -us and -ius, and to observe the exceptions (like meus). I think that Classical texts vary in this regard, but I'm pretty sure that the Latin I was taught is the modern standard. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 20:57, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
My Oxford Latin Grammar says that the vocative is -e for most masculine nouns in the second declension, but is -i for -ius nouns. Another of my sources says that -i is used for filius, genius, and proper nouns ending in -ius. The latter view is supported by Allen & Greenough's New Latin Grammar. The entries on Wiktionary are not always correct for their declension, as editors sometimes use existing templates without knowing the variations, so I wouldn't put much faith in what our entries say in situations where a word may not be part of the norm. In the case of sagittarius and aquarius, I'd be inclined to think they would form the vocative in -e, since they have the (principally) adjectival ending -arius, and I've not seen evidence that it differs from the norm. However, I don't have data to determine the matter one way or the other for such nouns, and a Google search was not particularly helpful, as there is no feature that will allow me to filter out "olde English spellyngs", nor a quick means of filtering genitive forms from potentially vocative ones. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:16, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Forced user renames coming soon for SULEdit

Hi, sorry for writing in English. I'm writing to ask you, as a bureaucrat of this wiki, to translate and review the notification that will be sent to all users, also on this wiki, who will be forced to change their user name on May 27 and will probably need your help with renames. You may also want to help with the pages m:Rename practices and m:Global rename policy. Thank you, Nemo 13:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


Is the latest modification to lac OK? SemperBlotto (talk) 15:45, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

No, but the original was incorrect as well. This word has no plural according to Oxford. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:59, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

esperpento and medidor de whiskeyEdit

Click here to see (and immediately be directed to the edit tab on) my response on my talk page and please consider replying there in order to keep all the dialogue in one place. Thank you.Harmonywriter (talk) 21:29, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


Hi EncycloPetey! I've added the Basque translations for listen and parrot. However, I'm not sure about how to translate "parrot" in the sense of "parroter: person who repeats what was just said". Regards. --Zuiarra (talk) 23:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

On a category for 4th declension masculine nounsEdit

I think this category is very useful for native speakers of Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan and Italian (and, to a much lesser extent, Romanian). Most of these nouns have descendants in these languages, either inherited or borrowed—however, they're almost completely or completely merged with the descendants of the second declension (the one exception being manus in Portuguese/Spanish/Italian and (maybe) Catalan). When native speakers of these languages study Latin, these are often seen by students as pseudo-irregularities of the second declension.

I don't see why English Wiktionary couldn't cater to such needs, considering many of such speakers have a decent knowledge of English (being a prestigious lingua franca and all), and often even prefer to use English-language resources when available. Linguistic resources produced in English often have a better quality and better coverage than those found in other languages, if only because a wider (and not to mention generally richer) market (comprised both of native and non-native speakers) encourages publishers. Or in the case of Wikimedia Foundation's projects, because said wider audience can and does participate (I don't think anybody can deny the large role non-native speakers of English play on English Wikipedia).

So there you go, this is my defense of the usefulness of a category for masculine nouns in the Latin fourth declension.--Serafín33 (talk) 22:40, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I see, the idea hadn't occurred to me. I'll change the labels then, and make "Latin feminine nouns in the fourth declension" a subcategory of a category named Latin fourth declension nouns.--Serafín33 (talk) 22:50, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Latin pronunciationEdit

I know I have to add the time-period, and if you looked at some pronunciations I've been adding I usually put it at the front. In this case I just forgot. >_< I'll follow your style of not adding the dot redundantly. I'll add that to Appendix:Latin pronunciation too.

As for the pronunciation of neuter, I used /ne.u-/ following W. Sidney Allen's scholarly work Vox Latina: A Guide to the Pronunciation of Classical Latin, page 63:

eu is confined to the forms neu, ceu, seu, the interjections heu and heus, and Greek proper names and borrowings such as Orpheus, Europa, euge, eunuchus. [...] The sound may be produced by combining a short e with an u; what must certainly be avoided is the pronunciation [yū] as in the English neuter1 [...].
1 Latin neuter is normally trisyllabic, i.e. nĕŭter.

However, he doesn't say how he knows that. I bet he got to know that from poetry scansion, but I don't know. Not that I've read other sources on the reconstruction of Latin (his certainly isn't the only one, I know from indirect comments that there's plenty of scholars who contradict him on his ideas of the pronunciation of vowel-final words when followed by a vowel-initial word, for example).Serafín33 (talk) 03:13, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Dē latīnā uocāle anteriōre rotundā...Edit

I noticed that Appendix:Latin pronunciation recommends using ‹ʏ› for the Latin front rounded vowel. Is there any reason why ‹ʏ› is used instead of ‹y›? It's especially surprising because the symbols for the phonemes are otherwise the most accessible ones (i.e. the ones easier to type, following normal IPA conventions). That is, ‹i e o u› for the short vowels, instead of ‹ɪ ɛ ɔ ʊ› (which would be more representative of their pronunciation, well, if following W. Sidney Allen's reconstruction, anyway).--Serafín33 (talk) 03:31, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I haven't found a source that makes a really good (or clear) case for any specific IPA value. Most of the good texts I've looked through in researching the sounds are a bit vague. The choice of ‹ʏ› is based on a number of readings I've made, and it matches the conclusion the Latin experts on Wikipedia came up with. See w:Latin spelling and pronunciation, where there is a section entitled "Adoption of Greek upsilon". From what I understand, the unusual symbol is a result of (1) IPA assigning /y/ to the Classical Greek value, coupled with (2) the fact that the sound was not native to Latin, and Latin speakers were mostly unable to produce the sound as the Greeks did it. The only unfortunate thing about the Wikipedia article is that this is one of the few sections nobody bothered to include citations for, but as I say, I'd reached the same conclusion from my researches back when I was looking for good info. That said, the Appendix we have on Latin rponunciation may still include a few errors, or things that can be improved. It was written very early in my phonological researches. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
As for the vowel qualities of short vowels /e i o u/, it doesn't matter to me anywa... Whether you use symbols closer to their pronunciation (as reconstructed by Allen: "/ɛ ɪ ɔ ʊ/"), or something more abstract (i.e. "/e i o u/") in a phonemic transcription is just a matter of æsthetics. (Many Chinese bilingual dictionaries transcribe the English RP /eɪ ɑː ɔː/ phonemes as "/eː aː oː/" for example.)
I think you've misread the article on Wikipedia you linked to regarding the use of 〈ʏ〉, however. The use of the 〈〉 parentheses with small capitals in the middle does not refer to symbols to be used in a transcription, they refer to Latin orthography/spelling (they use 〈E〉 and 〈A⟩ elsewhere for /a aː e eː/ [a aː ɛ eː] for example). The Latinists on Wikipedia have made no conclusion you mention. There's no unusual IPA symbol used for it, because their use of 〈ʏ〉 is not an IPA symbol but a simple orthographical one. However, my question was about what IPA symbol to use.
I'm also very much confused by what you mean by those two points. I don't know how they support the use of 〈/ʏ/〉 as the IPA symbol at all. As for point (1), there's no issue with the IPA assigning the IPA symbol 〈y〉 to the French [y] sound. Plus, isn't the point Allen makes that they tried to imitate Greek [y] anyway? As for point (2), when they weren't able to pronounce Greek [y], they used their own /i iː/ [i iː] instead. I don't think there's anybody saying they used a near-close variant [ʏ] instead.
I strongly suggest changing the article so that using 〈/y/〉 is recommended.--Serafín33 (talk) 18:48, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
I would imagine that if /i/ was realised as [ɪ] and /u/ was realised as [ʊ], then those Latin speakers who had mastered the sound would probably have produced [ʏ] when saying /y/ as well. Most speakers did not distinguish /y/ from /i/ though. —CodeCat 19:41, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
It's still odd that that it's recommended such vowel be written ‹/ʏ/› though, considering we don't write ‹/ɪ ɛ ɔ ʊ/›, especially because there's also words that Lewis & Short report are pronounced with a long high front rounded vowel: Hȳdra, tȳphon, sȳcē. These words would get their pronunciations written with ‹/ʏː/›(!), e.g. ‹/ˈhʏː.dra/›, for [ˈhyː.dra].--Serafín33 (talk) 02:16, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
When some of the older English-speaking Latinist writers say "long", they sometimes mean vowel duration and sometimes mean metrically heavy. That is, they are not careful to distinguish vowels of greater duration (e.g. /a/ vs. /aː/) as opposed to vowels which occur in a metrically heavy syllable. The word hydra is a case in point, where Lewis & Short indicate a "long" vowel with a macron, but modern dictionaries such as Feyerabend do not show a macron here. In this situation, Lewis & Short have been superceded by more recent scholarship. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:23, 5 July 2013 (UTC)


You pronounce [ˈmʌfən] here ? 21:09, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know. The audio player doesn't work for me, so I can't listen to these files right now. I'm trying to get help on Commons. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:11, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
This in your voice. 21:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but I can't hear it. I can't play the file online. The player does not work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:24, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Cousin can be pronounced /ˈkʌzɪn/ too ? 21:22, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

In that situation it's not likely unless the person is deliberately trying to be overly correct. The /z/ is a voiced sibilant, which makes it less likely to have /ɪ/ following it before the nasal. The more likely pronunciation is /ˈkʌz.ən/. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:24, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

And the word medicine is pronounced /ˈmɛdɪsɪn/ ? 11:21, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Not usually, no. In the UK: /ˈmɛd.sən/, /ˈmɛd.sɪn/, or /ˈmɛd.ɪ.sən/. In the US: /ˈmɛd.ɪ.sən/. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:27, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Latin Proper NounsEdit

Hi, I've been directed to you from Razorflame's talk page concerning some of my edits on a Latin entry. Here is my question I presented to Razorflame and now present to you:

"Sorry to bother you again. I was just trying to enter the non-lemma forms for some Latin words when I finally noticed that a proper noun, Remus, was showing a plural. I highly doubt that the name of a founder of Rome would be presented in the plural, but I cannot find anything on it, especially on Template:la-proper noun-form. Would you be able to advise me on whether the plural should be removed, and how one might do that?"

I've also noticed the additional problem of the macron on the "e" in "Rēmus", which Collins Latin Dictionary says should be absent in the name (with rēmus meaning an oar with the long vowel), and so obviously I will rectify that as well. Thank you in advance for your help. Benjitheijneb (talk) 17:47, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

There are several things going on here, so I'll try to tackle them one by one. First off, the Collins Latin Dictionary is not the most authoritative, and I'd not rely upon it for a decision about anything in doubt. If you have access to the Oxford Latin Dictionary, that's one of the best available. Now the issue of remus / Remus / Remi: You are corect that the common noun rēmus (oar) has a macron. You are also correct that the name of Rome's legendary founder Remus should not have a macron. However, there is (was) a tribe in Gaul known as the Rēmī, and therein probably lies the confusion that's put a macron on the name of Rome's founder.
As to the formatting of inflection tables for Latin proper names: We never got around to developing a full set of templates to cover those. At the time that I helped set up (and revise) the templates we currently have, there weren't yet a lot of proper names, and I deliberately avoided them because (a) there was an on-going general debate at the time about how to handle elements of personal names, and (b) Classical Roman names don't fit the usual modern patterns anyway (praenomina, agnomina, gens, etc.). I focussed on just getting the wrok done for common noun patterns, and for the other parts of speech, many of which had no templates, and especially the verb conjugations (which also had many templates missing). As a result, we have only a few unsuitable inflection table usages, like the one at Augustus, or none at all. The same is true for inflection tables for place names, where a locative ending needs to be included. In that situation, sometimes a suitable table exists (as for Athēnae, but sometimes it doesn't.
I hope this helps answer your questions. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:14, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
Certainly has, thank you very much! I have amended the macrons as necessary in the entries, including "Rēmi" and "Rēmus" included on account of the tribe, as you pointed out. I suppose the plural forms of Roman names can be rationalized with the generational usage of the same praenomina, nomina and cognomina (such as in Gaius Julius Caesar's case with his father), and given "the recognition of "Remus" as a cognomen, this applies. In terms of the dictionary, I only have access to Collins at present, but I will continue to consult others in doubt until I can acquire a copy of the Oxford Latin Dictionary. Thank you again! Benjitheijneb (talk) 18:11, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
There are a couple of new issues that you have introduced with your edits: (1) It's "Proper noun" not "Proper Noun". We don't capitalize after the first letter of a section header. (2) You've given Rēmus as a singular proper noun for a member of the tribe, but (a) the singular form is not attested in Classical Latin, so the lemma should be the plural. There are no known singular forms. And (b) a noun like Rēmus would not be a proper noun but a common noun. While a tribal name can be a proper nohn, the noun indicating membership in a group would be a common noun, not proper. I'ts analogous to Felis leo being the name of the lion species, but a member of that species is just a lion. In the English language, French is a proper noun demonting a certain people, but Frenchman is a common noun. Yes, it's capitalized, but that's because it derives from the capitalized word French, and not because it's a proper noun. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:48, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
I seem to be forgetting just about every convention of Latin linguistics (the common noun distinction for members of the group should have been obvious). Thank you again, I have removed the singular and will remove the inflection table for Rēmi (since I cannot find an appropriate inflection table for it which does not incorporate a singular), leaving just the nominative plural as the lemma without inflections until a suitable table can be devised. And I will also avoid capitalising section headers henceforth. Thank you again! Benjitheijneb (talk) 10:53, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Latin aeternusEdit

Can this word also mean eternal? Since the descendants also are eternal, this makes me think that this word could also mean eternal in Latin. Could you confirm this? Razorflame 20:56, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

  • <butting in> Yes. Added. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:09, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
    Yes, in fact this is (though intermediate stages) the source word from which we get English eternal. The problem with using "eternal" as a definition, however, is that it has multiple meanings, all of which apply to aeternus. To put it another way, aeternus has multiple senses, and eternal (with its multiple senses) could translate any of them. So, it can be used as a translation/definition, but not without additional clarification. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:46, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
    Oh yeah, I know lots of words like this, and I wasn't expecting it to be able to be added without further clarification first :) Razorflame 20:05, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


In everyday speech, visit is pronounced /ˈvɪzɪt/ or /ˈvɪzət/ ? 14:48, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

It is pronouced both ways. The first is more fully enunciated, and more likely in the UK or eastern US, but the second pronunciation is common as well. --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:50, 1 September 2013 (UTC)


I've just created this, but the inflection looks wrong to me. Could you correct it please, or just delete it if totally wrong. SemperBlotto (talk) 11:30, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

It looks serviceable to me, and the forms cited in the Oxford Latin Dictionary match those in the table. The only downside is that you don't have the locative case. Some of the templates have showing the location as an option, but others do not. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:45, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
I had forgotten about the change to templates that automatically remove macrons, so was supplying the wrong parameters - fixed before you looked at it. SemperBlotto (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2013 (UTC)


Hi there. Lewis & Short have napy (napyos) as a Latin word for mustard. I can't think how it would be inflected, or what templates to use. Any ideas? SemperBlotto (talk) 16:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Judging by the OLD (Oxf. Latin Dict.), this is a hapax legomenon. It appears in Pliny's Natural History, where he appears to be saying something like "which the Anthenians call napy" and in anothe place "...the other shepherd's purse, called napy by the Persians". So, it seems to appear only in Pliny and only in reference to what foreigners call thlaspi. It thus seems to be an attempt by Pliny at a transliteration of a foreign word, and not a Latin one. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:30, 15 September 2013 (UTC)


Hi, I noticed that you added the etymology to havi several years ago. Are you sure that it comes from habeo? It seems more likely to me that it comes from the English word "have", unless you know of a source that says otherwise. Let me know what you think. Mr. Granger (talk) 01:23, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

This source agrees with me, so I'm going to go ahead and make the change. Mr. Granger (talk) 03:05, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
It's been so long ago, that I cannot recall what source suggested the etymology to me. Thanks for your edit. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)


You have new messages Hello, EncycloPetey. You have new messages at AmaryllisGardener's talk page.
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--AmaryllisGardener (talk) 14:15, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

sneak - as an adjective? (e.g. sneak peek, sneak preview, etc.)Edit

Hi and thanks for the msg re: sneaked - I'm appreciative of the info.

Also, what do you think of sneak as an adjective? E.g. we have sneak peek, sneak preview (meaning advance look at a portion of a work). Also we have sneak thief (a thief who does so quietly and wanting to avoid detection). Also noticed "sneak photo" and "sneak look" in Google Books.

As for verbs, we have sneak up, sneak in, sneak away, sneak off (I'm not quite sure we need all these - then do we also need "sneak around", "sneak out", etc.? Facts707 (talk) 04:20, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I'd say that "sneak" does look like an adjective based on the examples you've given. The combination sneak peek probably deserves to stay as an entry, as it's an extremely common and fixed collocation of those two components. There is always the danger in assuming that this sort of construction makes the first component an adjective, as sometimes it's actually a noun. In "computer table", for instance, "computer is a noun is apposition to "table", rather than an adjective description. The same can be said of "dog collar", "book depository", or "exercise program". So, you just have to be sure that you don't get fooled in these situations where "sneak" might actually be a noun sense. You can always ask for additional opinions in the Tea Room.
The phrasal verbs with "sneak" (e.g. "sneak off") are probably legit as well. Print dictionaries tend to lump these under the main verb to conserve page space, but Wiktionary has opted to give them separate entries, when merited, as we are not limited by any page count. We probably should have an entry for sneak out, and possibly for sneak around (although I'm less convinced of that). --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:45, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, sounds good to me. I'll have a go at it when I have another few minutes. Facts707 (talk) 07:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)


Thanks for making me the word of the day :) YWelinder (WMF) (talk) 23:31, 21 November 2013 (UTC)


Do you have any idea what the "RQ" is supposed to stand for in the RQ templates (e.g. Template:RQ:Cicero Catiline)? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 19:44, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

It stands for "reference quotation". --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:22, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
That's sort of what I thought, but....does it really make much sense? Wouldn't it make more sense to simply use Q? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 21:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Sort of, but since "quotation" refers to the quote itself, and the templates are for the source of the quotations, they were called "reference quotation" templates. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:15, 1 December 2013 (UTC)



I've submitted this entry you created to deletion. Could you give your opinion about this? --Fsojic (talk) 16:04, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Probably should be deleted, or made into some kind of redirect. It's an old entry before I firgured out some of the nuances of Latin formative suffices. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:24, 13 February 2014 (UTC)


I remember you used to run a Galician bot. Is it feedable? If so, I'd like to feed it with torturar. --Back on the list (talk) 11:53, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

I haven't run the bot in a while, but hope to begin another round of Galician verbs and entry cleanup before too long. Suggestions have been sent to User talk:FitBot, and I'll work from there when I get things up and running again. I'm on and extended wikibreak for the present. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:25, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, Rockpilot and Rising Sun, two of the greatest ever perma-banned users, editted that page before. I guess I forget things quite easily. --Back on the list (talk) 18:01, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Last modified on 9 March 2014, at 18:01