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Template talk:quote-book


Compliance with WT:QUOTEEdit

It was mentioned that this doesn't comply with WT:QUOTE. If this is the case, and if it matters, hopefully someone can point out the problem; I know that it's no worse than what I or many other editors produce by hand, and at least any problems can be cleaned up in a single edit rather than hundreds. -- Visviva 06:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

FeedbackEdit

I love this template. It reduces the strain of having to focus on how to properly format the quotation. With this template, I just fill-in a questionnaire, kind of. --Daniel Polansky 08:37, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

How can this be made to give a better result than appears at Citations:Ucalegon? DCDuring TALK 00:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
By using |indent2=*:, as mentioned above. H. (talk) 15:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
But still better, of course, would be a test for the Citations namespace and adding proper indent automatically. Which technician is up to this? H. (talk) 09:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Done; probably not the ideal solution but it should work for now. Will need to fix this for other quote-x templates also. -- Visviva 15:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Volume parameter needed, chapter output wrongEdit

Often large works are divided into volumes, a parameter for this is needed.

Furthermore, often chapters only have a number, in that case, the output of the template is strange. One should distinguish between chapter-title= and chapter=. H. (talk) 09:20, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

For chapter numbers, you can use section=Chapter 4, which I'll grant you is a bit backwards. Will add volume parameter shortly, along with some others; I had simply been treating it "volume X" as part of the title, which is fairly common practice IMX but certainly not ideal. -- Visviva 15:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Done now (some time ago). -- Visviva 14:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
  • "section=" does not work at this time. DCDuring TALK 16:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Display of year vs. year publishedEdit

Shouldn't "year_published" be displayed a the head of the citation line in bold rather than "year" (as the documentation defines them) for translations? Or perhaps the documentation should be changed so that "year" should be the year of the translation, and "year_published" the publication of the original. DCDuring TALK 20:27, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Template talk:reference-book#Comma bugsEdit

RuakhTALK 18:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

ItalicsEdit

I think that the quoted text would be better presented in italics. --Jerome Potts 18:56, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

year_published, year orderingEdit

When both are present, shouldn't the year published come before the year? The current ordering seems misleading for translations- for example:

  • 1768, “Concerning Scortatory Love”, in The delights of wisdom concerning conjugial love, translation of Deliciae Sapientiae de Amore Conjugiali by Emanuel Swedenborg, published 1794, 466 (IV):
    That it is a scortation [transl. scortatio] more opposite to conjugal love than the common scortation [transl. scortatio], which is called simple adultery; and that it is a deprivation of every faculty and inclination to conjugal life, which is implanted in christians from nativity, may be evinced by arguments which will have great weight with the reason of a wise man.

The actual translation was created in 1794, which seems more important for scortation (an English entry) than the date of the original Latin. Nadando 21:39, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

more commasEdit

This template produces an extra comma after a date, eg at [[atheist]] it produces "1997 July 6,, Studies in Doctrine: Understanding Doctrine" where the ideal format is "1997 July 6, Studies in Doctrine: Understanding Doctrine". This occurs only after a month or a month-and-date is given; it does not occur if only a year is given. It is possibly related to the comma bug mentioned early on this talkpage. - -sche (discuss) 19:59, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

It has to do with the author= stuff being broken. I'll see what I can do. —Internoob 02:32, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
  DoneInternoob 02:48, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! - -sche (discuss) 03:01, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
You're welcome. :/ ~ Robin 08:16, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Some suggested changesEdit

Hi, could the following changes be made to the template?

  • There should be a comma before the word editor (that is, "George Crabb, editor"), as shown in the example below.
  • Instead of "edition 2nd", the template should indicate "2nd edition".
  • When the parameter |pages= is used, the template should display "pages" rather than "page".
1818, George Crabb, editor, English Synonymes Explained, in Alphabetical Order: With Copious Illustrations and Examples Drawn from the Best Writers[1], 2nd edition, London: Printed for Baldwin, Cradock, and Joy; and T[homas] Boosey, OCLC 560181292, pages 162–163:
Booty and prey are often used in an extended sense. Plunderers obtain a rich booty ; the diligent bee returns loaded with its booty.

Smuconlaw (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

  Done. If any entries used the wording "edition 2" (rather than "edition 2nd"), this change alters them to "2 edition", which is suboptimal but tolerable IMO. - -sche (discuss) 23:58, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Not sure how common "edition 2" is – I would have thought it is much more common to use an ordinal number. Smuconlaw (talk) 09:45, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Why is "year" not one of the first paramaters? and other related questionsEdit

I'd been putting "year" before anything else in this template, and I just realized that it doesn't work that way (at least not anymore--I'm fairly sure I was able to do that in the past). What I mean is that I was writing {{quote-book|author=...|year=2016}}, but that now returns "(Can we date this quote)" and the author ended up being ignored (but not all the time), for some reason. Instead, it seems that I have to put the year further back in the template, which makes absolutely no sense, considering that it's what displays first in the actual output.

To see an example, see this revision of "klatawaw", where I just noticed it. I'm fairly certain that it displayed properly when I created the page, so I'm curious to know what the problem is now, and why "year=" cannot be entered as the first paramater (and why one of the authors didn't show up).... Andrew Sheedy (talk) 04:51, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

It's because there was a typo in the template. Here is the original template:
{{quote-book|year=1887|author=John Harrison Mills|title=Chronicles of the Twenty-first Regiment New York State Volunteers|chapter=10|url=https://books.google.ca/books?id=sy1CAAAAIAAJ&dq=clattawa&source=gbs_navlinks_s||page=204|passage=The midday echoes reply drowsily, the solitary horseman curses and “'''clattawa’s'''” up the road as though suddenly impressed with the idea that somebody is hooking his dinner over the hill[...]}}
If you look carefully, before "page=204" there are two pipe characters instead of one ("||"). Thus, the first pipe character was interpreted as the first unnamed parameter ({{{1}}}), which is for the year. Since no value was given, the template interpreted this as a failure to provide the year. Currently, the unnamed parameter takes priority over any value given for |year=, but I will fix this to prevent such accidents. Also, see the changes I've made at the klatawaw page. — SMUconlaw (talk) 12:30, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! I think that extra pipe was do to a misinterpretation by me of how the template worked. Andrew Sheedy (talk) 22:50, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
No worries. — SMUconlaw (talk) 13:17, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Chapter after name of work?Edit

The current placement of chapter seems awkward to me, shouldn't it be after the name of the work? For example:

Year - Author Name, Title of Work, chapter # ...

The order should be related to the importance of the information, and surely the title is more important than the chapter or page number. - TheDaveRoss 14:43, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Well, the aim was to align our templates with {{cite book}}. Also, I believe many citation formats place the chapter in front of the title. — SMUconlaw (talk) 15:05, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
While I am generally in favor of consistency and adhering to broader standards, in this case the standards seem wrong. We also deviate in other ways (such as putting the year first) to accommodate our particular needs, this seems like a place where that is appropriate. I think I prefer keeping the author and title together, and then adding the information about location of the word within the work in increasing order of specificity (Volume, Part, Chapter, Section, Page, Paragraph/Stanza/Line) or similar. - TheDaveRoss 15:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Perhaps you can start a wider discussion at the Beer Parlour? — SMUconlaw (talk) 16:02, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

WTFEdit

What's going on here??? Why do they all say today's date beside each year? I didn't arbitrarily add that date and when I press control F, I can't find the keywords "27" anywhere in the wiki markup. PseudoSkull (talk) 04:08, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Use the year parameter if you don't have a specific date. DTLHS (talk) 04:12, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
The |date= parameter makes use of the wikitext {{#date}} function to format dates. If one only specifies a year, the function adds to it today's date. Don't ask me why, but that's how it's programmed to work. As DTLHS mentioned above, if only specifying a year, use |year=. — SMUconlaw (talk) 09:39, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

CategorisationsEdit

Should this template add to categories, e.g. "X terms with quotations"? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:03, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

The template doesn’t recognize languages at the moment, and I’m personally not sure how to do that as I’m unfamiliar with Lua and the language module(s). I support the idea if someone is willing to work on the template. — SGconlaw (talk) 12:42, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
@Atitarev, Sgconlaw: you don't need them. You just need to make {{quote-meta}} use {{quote}}. See User:Alexis Jazz/Sandbox and User:Alexis Jazz/Sandbox/qm for example. (see Maduro diet for the example in action) You need to add "|language = {{{language|}}}" to quote-book and fuck quite a bit with {{quote-meta}}. Indentation is a bit broken in my example, so you'll need to fix that. I got rid of the brackets=on rubble, only 91 pages use it anyway and it seems to be utterly useless. Alexis Jazz (talk) 18:54, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
The parameter |brackets= is intended for less common cases where the quotation is provided to illustrate a term other than the entry which sheds light on the entry, or where the entry is a mention rather than a use. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
On the rather small number of pages that use it I just find it confusing and strange. I suppose the functionality could be kept, but I stripped it because it was difficult enough to make it work as it is. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Then you would need to add language parameters to all existing uses of {{quote-meta}} first. DTLHS (talk) 18:56, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Rather than use {{quote}} which is formatted differently from the other {{quote-...}} templates, I think it would be better if a free-standing language module were created that could be used in different templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:12, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Please explain what you mean, that doesn't make sense to me. DTLHS (talk) 19:15, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, I meant that it would be useful to have a module the sole job of which is to convert language codes into categories. Such a module could be invoked from within any template, and would generate an appropriate language category, e.g., if the template contained a line like "{{#invoke:lang|fr|terms with quotations}}", the module would then generate "[[Category:French terms with quotations]]". Having such a free-standing or independent module would be useful, as it could then be used by many different templates. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
See Module:languages#getByCode. DTLHS (talk) 19:53, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Ah, let me look into that. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
@Sgconlaw: I think {{cln|fr|terms with quotations}} does what you want. — Eru·tuon 06:53, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
@Sgconlaw: that would possibly be better, but who is gonna do that? I just offered something that appears to work with the advantage of actually existing. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
I think this would be well within the capability of editors like @Erutuon and @DTLHS who have worked on Module:usex. It's a question of whether they have the time and inclination to work on it at the moment. — SGconlaw (talk) 19:46, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
@DTLHS: I guess, but that's only 8 templates. Any non-English main entries that use them indirectly should be checked/have parameter added. (could maybe be done by a bot?) Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
No it's not 8 templates, it's every page that uses those templates. DTLHS (talk) 19:38, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
@DTLHS: No it's just 8 templates that use {{quote-meta}} directly. Any page that uses one of those 8 templates needs to be checked, but only has to be changed if the quote is not English. This should probably be done anyway regardless of how this is tackled because quotations now either use quote-... and can't possibly be categorized or they use quote-..., omit the "passage" and are followed by {{quote}} which is kinda stupid. Alexis Jazz (talk) 19:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Actually, to ask a more fundamental question, what is the purpose of having categories like "English terms with quotations"? It doesn't seem very useful to me. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:14, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

To find lemmas without quotations, like a maintenance cat? incategory:"English lemmas" -incategory:"English terms with quotations" Alexis Jazz (talk) 20:51, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Alexis Jazz, Atitarev, DTLHS, Erutuon: I have updated {{quote-meta/source}}, {{quote-book}} and {{quote-journal}} so that they now provide for language categorization. The parameter |lang= with an appropriate language code must be added. I will eventually roll this out to all {{quote}} family templates and update the documentation pages. — SGconlaw (talk) 22:07, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Return to "quote-book" page.