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Again, welcome! --Vahag (talk) 19:48, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Some notes on interwikisEdit

Hello, I noticed you've been adding interwikis to templates. These should placed in the includeonly section of a documentation page like this. Otherwise they will get transcluded into entries. Also, we since the installation of a new plugin, we no longer need to add them in entries. —JohnC5 13:43, 3 June 2017 (UTC)


Thank you for your contributions! I've been meaning to expand Sogdian entries for a while. Just a small request, could you add {{babel}} to your user page? It's useful for knowing which languages you know, so people know who to go for help. —Aryaman (मुझसे बात करो) 16:15, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Middle PersianEdit

Hello and thank you for your work on Persian and related languages ☺. I noticed you mention Middle Persian on your user page. The category Category:Middle_Persian_entry_maintenance has some entries that might need work, for example Category:Middle_Persian_terms_needing_native_script, in case you hadn't seen it and it interests you at all. Kaixinguo~enwiktionary (talk) 15:09, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

PIE *-r̥Edit

Please do not add descendants to PIE suffix entries that were not productive in that language. PIE *-r̥ was not productive in Iranian. --Victar (talk) 16:09, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Iranian family names and codesEdit

For the Iranian family names and codes, please see User:Victar/family trees. --{{victar|talk}} 16:38, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Formatting mistakesEdit

Ariamihr, your making a lot of formatting mistakes in descendants sections of entries:

  1. Do not use {{top}} in the middle of the section.
  2. Do not create blank {{desc}} and {{l}} entries for missing languages or branches.
  3. Take care to properly format dialects using {{desc|lang|-}} and *: and in alphabetical order, not ordered by prestige.
  4. Format script variants using {{desc|sclb=1}} and make use of |sc= when no native text is added.
  5. Language code xmn is deprecated. Use {{desc|pal|sc=Mani|sclb=1}} instead.
  6. Use |t= instead of the deprecated |gloss=
  7. Do not create language groups for a single descendant, with the exception at the root level in Iranian, ex. Southwestern Iranian
  8. Do not detail predictable changes within in a language

And the various other misformats I ping you about. Thanks. --{{victar|talk}} 09:18, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Ariamihr, I made some formatting fixes to your recent edit. Please take note. Thanks. --{{victar|talk}} 18:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Ariamihr, again here you're using language code xmn. That code has been discontinued. Please instead use {{desc|sc=Mani|sclb=1}}. --{{victar|talk}} 04:57, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
Again, please refrain from using language code xmn. --{{victar|talk}} 15:57, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Ariamihr, you again here and here added a {{top}} in the middle of the section. In that last edit, you also added unnecessary blank languages parents (point #2). Please read carefully through my guidelines above. I see you making effort, but if these formatting mistakes continue, you may be subject to a block. Thanks. --{{victar|talk}} 15:54, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Ariamihr, languages should be in alphabetical order, not ordered by prestige and based of their name, not their modifier. So Parthian followed by Old Persian and Manichaean by Book Pahlavi. Thanks. --{{victar|talk}} 19:46, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Old MazanderaniEdit

Ariamihr, could you please tell me how you're defining "Old Mazanderani" and what your sources are for it? Thanks. --{{victar|talk}} 18:28, 31 March 2019 (UTC).

Dear Victar. The Old Mazandarani or Tabari is an extincted language that used by early Mazandaranies especially in Islamic era. Nowadays that language have been fallen and replaced by new Mazandarani. We have alot of papers, books (such as translation of Quran in Tabari or history books) and poems in Old Mazandarani. I can provide some texts in TabariAriamihr (talk) 20:40, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply, Ariamihr. Yes, I would appreciate it if you could provide some online sources. I've never seen Old Mazanderani/Tabari referenced as a different language than Modern Mazanderani. If we're talking about just some archaisms, I don't think we should be calling them separate languages. --{{victar|talk}} 04:45, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

I've been reading Habib Borjian's thoughts on the matter and these are the proposals I came up with. Please give me your opinions, if you have any. Thanks.

Current systemProposal #1Proposal #2Proposal #3
  • Caspian: [ira-csp] family code
    • Gilaki: [glk]
    • Mazanderani: [mzn]
    • Shahmirzadi: [srz]
  • Caspian: [ira-csp] family code
    Proto-Tabari: [mzn-pro]
    • Gilaki: [glk]
      Lahijani [glk-lah] etymology code
      Rashti [glk-ras] etymology code
    • Old Tabari: [mzn-old] etymology code
      Old Gorgani: [mzn-gor] etymology code
      • Mazanderani: [mzn]
        Amoli: [mzn-amo] etymology code
        Shahmirzadi: [mzn-sah/srz] etymology code
        Yushij: [mzn-yus] etymology code
  • Caspian: [ira-csp] family code
    • Proto-Tabari: [mzn-pro]
      • Gilaki: [glk]
        Lahijani [glk-lah] etymology code
        Rashti [glk-ras] etymology code
      • Old Tabari: [mzn-old]
        Old Gorgani: [mzn-gor] etymology code
        • Mazanderani: [mzn]
          Amoli [mzn-amo] etymology code
        • Shahmirzadi: [srz]
  • Hyrcanian: [ira-hyr] family code
    • Proto-Hyrcanian: [ira-hyr-pro]
      • Gilaki: [glk]
        Lahijani [glk-lah] etymology code
        Rashti [glk-ras] etymology code
      • Old Gorgani: [ira-grg]
      • Ruyani[1] (Central Caspian[2]): [ira-ruy]
        Kalardashti [ira-ruy-kal] etymology code
        Taleqani [ira-ruy-tal] etymology code
        Tonekaboni [ira-ruy-ton] etymology code
      • Old Tabari: [mzn-old] etymology code
        • Mazanderani: [mzn]
          Amoli: [mzn-amo] etymology code
          Shahmirzadi: [mzn-sah/srz] etymology code
          Yushij: [mzn-yus] etymology code
  1. ^ Borjian, Habib (2004) , “Māzandarān: Language and People (The State of Research)”, in Iran & the Caucasus, volume 8, issue 2
  2. ^ Stilo, Donald (2001) , “Gilan x. Languages”, in Encyclopaedia Iranica X[1], New York, pages 660-668

--{{victar|talk}} 23:45, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Victar, the Proposal #2 is closer and we must add some another languages to it. plz remove this title "Proto-tabari" on Gilaki, because Gilaks and the people who live in Gilan are not and were not Tabarian (Tapurian). In addition we had "Deylami Language" in Gilan that today has been falled. So plz write the code according on this facs:
  • Proto-Gelaeo-Daylamic:
  • Proto-Tapurian:
  • Proto-Hyrcanian:
    • Gorgani (an extincted language):
--Ariamihr (talk) 04:22, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
Hmm, I don't quite agree with your suggestions.
  1. Gilan was united under Tabaristan in 645 CE, so the Gilaks were indeed Tapurians during a period you could call Proto-Tabari (or Proto-Tapurian, if you prefer), which would encompass a dialectal continuum. That said, I'm not opposed to using Proto-Hyrcanian. --{{victar|talk}} 15:39, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
  2. Deylami is unattested, so we have no idea what language it was actually related to and have no entries to create for it. Trying to connect it to Gilaki would be conjecture, at best.
  3. If you place Shahmirzadi under Mazanderani/Modern Tabari, you have to make it a dialect of the language, as exampled in Proposal #1.
(Ariamihr, you keep trying to ping me by typing [[replay|Victar]] but 1. the spelling of the word is "reply", not "replay", and 2. the way to ping people is using {{reply|Victar}})
--{{victar|talk}} 15:25, 3 April 2019 (UTC)


Ariamihr, you need to be careful about adding Iranian words it PIE entries. Many of those which you added to *ǵerh₂- are secondary, like Pashto زړښت(zaṛǝ́ӽt, oldness), and don't belong on the PIE page. --{{victar|talk}} 16:15, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

{{desctree}} and {{desc|alts=1}}Edit

Ariamihr, you've done this a few times now, but when you see {{desctree}} and {{desc|alts=1}}, that means that to add content to those, the former being descendants and the latter alternatives, you need to add them to their respective pages. So the descendants of Old Persian 𐎼𐎢𐎨𐏃 (r-u-c-h /raucah/) need to be added there, not to Proto-Iranian *ráwčah. --{{victar|talk}} 18:10, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Creating reconstruction entriesEdit

Ariamihr, you need to add the proper stems to entries you create, which you failed to do so here. You also neglected to add any sources, which is imperative for creating reconstructed entries. I also need to mention that creating reconstructed entries for *-akah and *-ikah derivatives is often ill-advised because those suffixes were and are highly productive in many Iranian languages. --{{victar|talk}} 19:34, 21 May 2019 (UTC)


Ariamihr, can you please attempt to fix your entry for Proto-Iranian *ȷ́ŕ̥dayam. --{{victar|talk}} 13:48, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Your edits neglected to fix many of the problems with it so I will outline the ones I have mentioned in the past here again.
  1. Sources are required for reconstructed entries. If you cannot comply with that, I will seek that you are blocked from en.Wikt. If you think I am exaggerating, please see User talk:Irman
  2. You need to stop adding blank tree levels, like you did with Old Ossetic and Middle Median
  3. Scripts should be in alphabetic order, i.e. Manichaean, Book Pahlavi, Inscriptional Pahlavi, Psalter Pahlavi
--{{victar|talk}} 16:15, 27 May 2019 (UTC)


Ariamihr, why do you keep insisting on placing Manichaean at the bottom of script lists? Manichaean alphabetically comes before Pahlavi, Sogdian and Syriac. --{{victar|talk}} 13:57, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Ariamihr, you're actions in this edit indicate that you are continuing to do this intentionally. Please desist. --{{victar|talk}} 21:44, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Unnecessary sourcesEdit

Ariamihr, you don't need to add sources for words in descendants lists unless they're reconstructed or contentious in some way. --{{victar|talk}} 15:05, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Ariamihr, you continue to add these to the descendants sections on pages. I'm going to start just reverting your edits if this continue to be so poorly made. --{{victar|talk}} 19:46, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Ariamihr, please STOP ADDING SOURCES FOR ATTESTED WORDS IN DESCENDANTS LISTS and ADD SOURCES FOR THE RECONSTRUCTION instead. --{{victar|talk}} 15:26, 29 September 2019 (UTC)


Ariamihr, never remove a T:RFD that another user adds to a page you create, especially before the issue has been resolved. You created a duplicate entry in *xšiHrám of *xšwiptah, merging it into *kšiHrám. Despite all the mostly useless sources you added, you didn't add a source for the reconstruction itself -- again. Also, many of the Persian borrowings you added look suspicious, at best, and at the very least, you should have sources to their borrowing from other Iranian languages. These types of dubious etymological derivations aren't tolerated. --{{victar|talk}} 19:12, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed all the misattributed entries, added some missing ones, added proper sourcing, removing the unnecessary ones, and fixed all the template and formatting mistakes, clearing the RFD. --{{victar|talk}} 02:28, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Order of Middle Persian scriptsEdit

Ariamihr, again, please sort Middle Persian scripts as follows:

  • Middle Persian:
    Book Pahlavi:
    Inscriptional Pahlavi:
    Psalter Pahlavi:

--{{victar|talk}} 15:40, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Victar: Why I have to follow this bloody order?! If is it alphabetical, why M is before B? Everyone knows that Book pahlavi is prime script for Middle Persian not Manichean. Why you want make artificial and fake data for Iranian languages? Are you native for this language or not? If you are not native for this language and don't have academic certificate, so please don't interfere in this. Ok?!
Ariamihr, do you see the parts I bolded? This is what they are alphabetically ordered by, just as Old Persian comes after Parthian, the modifier is not the sorting factor. Think of it as 1. Manichaean, 2. Pahlavi, Book. Also, we do not order languages in order of prestige, as you're suggesting with Book Pahlavi. If you cannot comply with formatting standards, you may be subject to a block from en.Wikt. --{{victar|talk}} 16:20, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Comments on *máduEdit

  1. {{ira-noun}} is not a valid template; use {{head|ira-pro|noun}} instead. Please use the previewer to see if it produces any errors before you hit publish.
  2. If you're moving PII contents to new PIr entries, a) you need to source the new page, and b) it would be good to add a link to the PII entry in the etymology.
  3. The definitions are for the word itself, not what some descendants innovate.
  4. You need to add |- to dialect and script parent node, i.e. {{desc|ku|-}}, {{desc|xpr|-}}, {{desc|pal|-}}.
  5. Borrowings always go under inherited forms, i.e. {{desc|fa-cls}} before {{desc|xpr|bor=1}}.
  6. When a descendant is actually the derivative of different proto form, it should be placed under Derived terms, i.e. Pashto مېلوه(melawá).
  7. You give no source for the derivation of Azerbaijani مذو(mazow, grape syrup with watter [sic]), which if even true, is subject to the point above.
  8. What is your source for the Christian Syriac Sogdian forms? It looks to me like you're confusing extries marked with S as Syriac, when the S actually stands for Sogdian.

--{{victar|talk}} 02:20, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Follow-up to your recent edits:
  1. Thank you for the source to Azerbaijani borrowing مذو(mazow).
  2. What is this the source of the reconstruction of *máduHā́fš? Also, please don't hyphenate reconstructions, as you did with *mádu-Hā́fš.
  3. Again, borrowings always go under inherited forms. You were in error to go back and revert that, so I hope it was it mistake this time.
  4. Please also try and spell-check your English, because you again misspelled water as watter, as I pointed out above.
--{{victar|talk}} 03:04, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
@Victar: why do you want write down every reconstruction nouns in Latin script? As you know, Old Azari has been written in Perso-Arabic script. —⁠This unsigned comment was added by Ariamihr (talkcontribs) at 07:50, 2 July 2019.
On en.Wikt, we reconstruct scantily attested languages in Latin. Really, we should be reconstructing OP in Latin as well. --{{victar|talk}} 19:00, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Root Prefix entriesEdit

Ariamihr, don't create root entries for PII and PIr. We have a few old entries that need to be converted to verbs/nouns or deleted, but since then, we've moved to root categories. --{{victar|talk}} 15:27, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Ah, strike that, I see it's actually a prefix entry. Well, similarly, all words derived from a prefix and automatically sorted in categories using {{af}} or {{prefix}}, like Category:Proto-Iranian words prefixed with *duš-, and shouldn't be placed in the derived terms sections. --{{victar|talk}} 15:43, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Comments on *duš-Edit

  1. REPEAT: If you're moving PII contents to new PIr entries, a) you need to source the new page, and b) it would be good to add a link to the PII entry in the etymology.
  2. Again, your sources that you added for the attested words belong on their respective entries, and are unnecessary and clutter the parent entry and will be removed.
  3. This is key for suffix and prefix entries: Do not add descendants to them unless they are productive suffixes in that language. If the Sogdian form is only found in inherited compounds and not new constructions, it was not productive and should not be included.
  4. Please be careful about adding the correct templates to entries. *duš- had Proto-Indo-Iranian as its header, which is a pretty frequent occurrence in your entries
  5. Per above, you don't need to manually add words with this prefix to the entry and they will be sorted to the category with the right templates and can be pulled us using {{prefixsee|ira-pro}}
  6. You added a bunch of very broken entries related to this one, like *dušHahua, which despite being a Iranian noun, is labeled as a Proto-Indo-Iranian prefix. It also looks as though, in your copy-paste haste, you forgot to remove some of the prefix entries from *duš-. You also added a PIE reconstruction for the word, even though it has no cognates outside of Iranian. Honestly, it's really a mess of an entry. See my edit comments on *dušHnā́ma as well.

--{{victar|talk}} 16:08, 4 July 2019 (UTC)


I've mentioned this several times now but NEVER EVER add {{top2}} or {{top3}} in the middle of a section like you did here. Please STOP. --{{victar|talk}} 19:20, 29 July 2019 (UTC)


Ariamihr, please create a new entry for *čášmakah. --{{victar|talk}} 19:57, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Community Insights SurveyEdit

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights SurveyEdit

RMaung (WMF) 19:14, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights SurveyEdit

RMaung (WMF) 17:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Your blockEdit

It takes a lot of work for other editors to clean up after your mistakes with formatting that leave broken entries and your lack of sources for reconstructions, among other problems. These have been pointed out to you, and you have not responded or made any effort to learn how to improve. As a result, and following repeated warnings, I am blocking you for three days. If you don't understand why this is happening, please ask and @Victar or I can explain. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:26, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


There were a ton of issues with your entry for Reconstruction:Proto-Iranian/námah, most of which I've put to you before, but you continue to neglect.

  1. Don't create entries when you have no clue what the reconstructed form is. All, with the exception of Avestan 𐬥𐬆𐬨𐬀𐬢𐬵𐬋(nəmaŋhō), belong at Reconstruction:Proto-Iranian/namaHčah instead. Reconstruction:Proto-Iranian/Hača is another dumpster fire which I have to clean up after you
  2. REPEAT: No sources to the actual reconstruction, accompanied by useless references to the attested forms. This is made even more important as, mentioned above, you lack the ability to properly reconstruct Proto-Iranian
  3. REPEAT: Wrong header, use ==Proto-Iranian== on Proto-Iranian entries
  4. REPEAT: {{ira-noun}} is not a valid templates, use {{head|ira-pro|noun}}
  5. REPEAT: Don't reconstruct Old Azari in Arabic, use Latin script
  6. REPEAT: Don't add empty parent entries to the descendants list with only one child (hyper-hierarchization)
  7. REPEAT: Sort script variants by their script name
  8. REPEAT: If you're moving content from parent entries to child entries, you need to add {{see desc}} on the original page (or use {{desctree}} when appropriate)
  9. Don't add manual transliterations (|tr=) to Kurdish entries; those are created automatically
  10. Don't nest Iranian Persian, Tajik, etc., as if they're dialects of Classical Persian using *: {{desc|fa-ira}}

You've been temporarily blocked because after three block warnings, you refuse to comply with any of the above guidelines, particularly the ones above that I've had to repeat several times now. Your edits detract from the quality of en.Wikt. If you continue without adjusting, you risk a second longer block. --{{victar|talk}} 22:20, 28 October 2019 (UTC)


Ariamihr, you created Reconstruction:Proto-Iranian/tŕ̥šyati, which was reconstructed as a verb, with adjectival and nominal descendants from at least four different roots merged into one. Total mess. If you don't know what you're doing, please keep it to the PIE entry and don't new create PII and PIr entries. --{{victar|talk}} 03:25, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Reconstructions and formattingEdit

Again, 1. please reconstruct Old Persian in Latin characters, 2. please use {{desc|lang|-}} for dialect parents, i.e. {{desc|ku|-}}, {{desc|xme-ker|-}}, 3. don't hyper-hierarchize descendents list, i.e. adding Zaza-Gorani: with only one child language. --{{victar|talk}} 18:51, 22 March 2020 (UTC)



  1. REPEAT: You have several reconstructions, not just for Proto-Iranian, but also Parthian and Sogdian but no sourcing.
    It's also a good idea to source borrowing if there's no entry to cite the suspected borrowing.
  2. REPEAT: Reconstruction should be in Latin, which includes Middle Persian, Parthian, and Sogdian.
  3. REPEAT: Please don't add hyphens to compound Proto-Iranian words.
  4. Please use |t= for definitions in {{desc}}, {{l}}, and {{m}}.
  5. Pronunciations of dead languages is assumed reconstructed, you don't need to add * to |ts=.
  6. Aramaic has its own formatting specifications. I recommend you look at how those entries are formatting first.

--{{victar|talk}} 01:03, 23 February 2021 (UTC)