Thanks for taking a look at this entry that I tagged for attention. It's not really fixed, though, until the inflected-form entries are dealt with. For instance, sicerae has "ablative singular of ". If you view the previous revision, you can see what was linked to, or you can look through Special:WhatLinksHere/sicera. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:10, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi - I understand your point about stem-final vowels with -tus, but I'm not sure I agree. Both crociō and barriō are of the -iō type (i.e. the stems are croc and barr respectively). It becomes more obvious when you compare action nouns from first conjugation verbs, which all take the participle form too (frūstrō to frūstrātus, armō to armātus, licentiō to licentiātus etc.), or fourth conjugation verbs in -io that have irregular participles that just so happen to be the same as the action noun (convenio to conventus, evenio to eventus). I'm just not sure that your statement that meātus is meā + tus is true, really, because that ⟨ā⟩ is part of the participle ending.
- @Theknightwho Hi, I'm glad to discuss. There are many areas of Latin word formation where there is not obviously only one correct analysis. I don't want to be dogmatic. I do value consistency, and the current categories for suffixed forms are based on a perspective where first, second, and fourth conjugation verbs have present stems ending in vowels, not consonants, and identical vowel-final stems are considered to occur in various derived words (this is made clear by the note at the top of Category:Latin words suffixed with -tus (action noun) and the content of that category). Even though the way that the inflection of these verb classes is presented commonly suggests that they attach vowel-initial inflectional "suffixes" along the lines of -āre, -ēre, -īre throughout their paradigm to consonant-final bases, there are many analysts who consider the morphological structure of the present-tense forms to actually consist of stems ending in -ā-, -ē-, -ī- that combine with suffixes that in many cases are shared between different "conjugations" (the present infinitive ending -re is a fairly straightforward case; some other suffixes such as third-person singular -t have further complications; e.g. due to a phonological rule, the underlyingly long stem vowels are shortened before this suffix).
- Aside from the advantage of reducing the number of distinct suffixes with the same function that we need to postulate, treating the ī as part of the stem rather than the suffix in nouns ending in -ītus makes it clearer why such nouns exist for verbs that have present infinitives ending in -īre, but not for verbs that have present infinitives ending in -āre: the reason the verb selects which vowel is used before the -t- is because that vowel is really part of the phonological material of the verb rather than belonging to the suffix.
- It's true that these nouns almost always have the same stem as the perfect passive participle (or perfect participle for deponent verbs) when it exists. Treating this as the base would result in analyzing the suffix not as -ītus, but rather as -us. But there are a few lines of argument for treating the noun-forming ending as -tus instead, the approach that is currently used by Wiktionary (similar arguments apply to the endings -tor and -tio). As you're aware, not all verbs have a perfect passive participle. Etymologically, the perfect passive participle ending comes from *-tós, a different source from the nominalizing ending *-tus. Even if originally unrelated etymologically, it's clear that there was analogy or paradigmatic pressure to end up using forms that are built the same way up until the /t/. But another argument is that the semantic meaning of -tus nouns doesn't seem to be built on the meaning of the perfect passive participle.
- I've read a proof of "The morphome vs similarity-based syncretism" Latin t-stem derivatives" by Donca Steriade (2016), that discusses this topic. It's pretty detailed so I haven't finished it yet. While not directly relevant, Steriade's earlier The cycle without containment: Latin perfect stems (2012) discusses some general issues of Latin verb inflection and the stems involved in it.--Urszag (talk) 06:52, 27 July 2022 (UTC)