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User talk:Jamesjiao/Archive 2

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IPA for CantoneseEdit

Do you know that Cantonese do not have voiced consonants [b], [g], and [d]?


Can i replace guard by keeper ? Mag-Zen 02:11, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

You mean 'Can you replace the current definition with keeper'? You don't really have to ask. If you think the definition is wrong, you can change it. JamesjiaoTC 02:14, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I prefer not do by my self because somehone would erase my add (pret, kuti) or falsificate my explication (check coerator & curator, mbret, Перун). So i'm asking admin before to be sure to don't have problem. (how to be admin ?) Mag-Zen 09:50, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

  1. hi Nemzag, I apologize for the late reply. I have had a look at some of the words you mentioned. I can see why some of them were changed (like coerator). I don't know Latin very well, but for one thing I know that Latin didn't have any uvular consonants (such as the unvoiced uvular /q/), that's probably why Stephen changed it to /k/. If you think his edit is unjustified, you can raise this issue on his talkpage. He will most likely ask you for proof of this word being pronounced with an uvular (which would be very unusual for a typical Latin noun).

As for the deletion of your edits on pret and kuti, I have no idea as I do not know Albanian at all!. You might want to discuss with the admin in question as to why your edits were removed!. JamesjiaoTC 23:53, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


Please note my formatting changes here. Also please edit both the trad and simp forms together, it makes it a lot easier for everyone. Thanks. ---> Tooironic 12:25, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


i certainly bow to your greater knowledge of Dutch/Afrikaans, and your facility with WT in general. Prostituut is, however, listed as a Dutch synonym in the hoor entry. Afrikaans being a derivative language of Dutch, maybe it would be appropriate to list both as Dutch? Either way, both entries should agree.

I will read the information you suggested. Thank you for your patience, and for all your contribs. Ragityman 11:27, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Firstly, hoor does not mean whore in Dutch and I am not sure why you think prostituut is listed as a synonym of it, because it is not! Please look at the entry more closely. It is listed as a synonym under the Estonian heading, however. JamesjiaoTC 19:22, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
My baad, sir, I stand corrected. I see, now, there's no Dutch noun sense listed at hoor. It IS Estonian.

Ragityman 05:07, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

EPUB bookEdit

Hi, EPUB book is a book that is specific to an EPUB format. No problem if it needs to be deleted so to waste time etc. thanks.--Kary247 19:48, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

there is nothing new under the sunEdit

Regarding the entry there is nothing new under the sun: If how I created it is wrong, then how is the right way to create it? I know that "variant of" entries exist on Wiktionary. And redirects are generally ill-advised. Surely there is some authorized way to bring a user who searches for "there is nothing new under the sun" to the entry called nihil sub sole novum. Please advise. Thanks. — ¾-10 20:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I should have probably advised on why I deleted it. This is a 'another language' to English dictionary, not the other way around. Therefore, if you have an English idiomatic phrase such as this, you need to define it rather than linking it to a Latin phrase. People who don't speak Latin such as myself will still not know what 'there is nothing new under the sun' mean after reading your definition. JamesjiaoTC 20:36, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for getting back to me with the help—much appreciated. — ¾-10 20:59, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

xīnxié and hóngxiéEdit

Both are entries in Wenlin dictionary. Why do you delete them? Ddpy 02:46, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Because they are obvious sum of parts terms. They are in Wenlin doesn't mean they should be included here. JamesjiaoTC 05:00, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
But "xié (鞋)" is not a Mandarin word, it is a part of word. Usually we don't speak "xié" as a word in Mandarin. Please see here. Ddpy 06:17, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
In fact, I think most Mandarin syllables are not used on their own, but as part of multi-syllable (2 or more syllable) words. That doesn't mean we should consider Mandarin syllables that are usually or always combined with other terms prefixes or suffixes any more than we would consider an English term like "small" (which is almost always used as an adjective modifying a noun) a prefix. Prefixes and suffixes are very specific particles which are attached to words in order to modify their meaning, such as "pre-," "ante-," "super-," "-ism," etc., but normal nouns or adjectives like "shoes," "chicken," "red," "new," etc. are not. Following the logic that all single Mandarin syllables that are usually used not by themselves but in combination with other syllables should be considered prefixes or suffixes, we would be able to create Wiktionary entries for a nearly limitless number and combination of adjectives + nouns, such as "newshoes," "oldshoes," "bigshoes," "smallshoes," "grayshoes," "blackshoes," "purpleshoes," "uglyshoes," "beautifulshoes," etc., since, following this logic, all are distinct Mandarin words because, when written in Latin letters using the pinyin system, they look like words. Nevertheless, these are all most likely sum of parts entries, despite the fact that at least two of them ("new shoes" and "red shoes") appear, inexplicably, as examples in a single dictionary for which we seem to have no online version. For Mandarin terms such as 绿帽子 ("green hat"), which has a meaning separate from "green" + "hat," this may be appropriate as a Mandarin entry at Wiktionary, whereas "purple hat" or "gray hat," as simple sum of parts entries, would not, despite the fact that in pinyin they look like words.
One question why was "red shoes" given in the dictionary cited above as "红鞋" rather than "红色的鞋"? Of course, "Red Shoes" (written "红鞋" in Chinese, in titles such as 《红鞋日记》 or 《鬼紅鞋》, probably to make the title seem more poetic and streamlined) is the title of some books and films, so a Google search will likely be skewed, but the terms 黑鞋 and 黑色的鞋, or 黄鞋 and 黄色的鞋, produce roughly equal numbers of hits. 07:24, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
71 has pretty explained my sentiment. I wouldn't include terms like this, but I would however, include terms like 熏风. You can't surmise the meaning of the term from its components. Sure, means warm and means wind, but nowhere does it tell me that it's a warm southerly wind (which it is, albeit very literary). JamesjiaoTC 04:49, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Mandarin entriesEdit

Hello, I think you have been adding Mandarin sections for entries that only had Japanese. Would you consider adding Mandarin for these: 01:28, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

I apologize for the late reply. It's done. JamesjiaoTC 00:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi James, I wonder if you can help with this. The rare compound wombgate (meaning "vulva") has been around in English for centuries, but it seems that in some later uses it is used as a translation of a Chinese term of some kind. I see some sources on Google Books mention a Chinese term "baomen", so I am guessing this could be bāomén 胞門? Does this exist and have I written it right? Ƿidsiþ 06:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

According to this medical wiki in Chinese, it's a synonym for 子宮口 (vaginal opening, ie. vulva) and based on the examples given on the same page, the term was used in 金匱要略 (literally translated as the Synopsis of the Golden Chamber - see w:Jinkui_Yaolue), which was written in the early 100's. It could well have been a coincidence that the English term translates literally to the Chinese term. JamesjiaoTC 22:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


Thank you for the new Mandarin entries. I have just created 原生态; this is a fairly new but widely used term in China. Could you please check it and add anything you would like? Thank you, 08:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. It's quite a new term used often in the media to refer to the 'original untarnished state' of cultures (such as paintings, songs and etc). I will have to do more research on that. JamesjiaoTC 22:33, 12 January 2011 (UTC)


Is 吃喝玩乐 a valid term to make an entry for? I've seen it translated as cakes and ale, beer and skittles, and eat, drink, and be merry. 20:23, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

You could yes. However this idiom often carries with it a negative connotation - usually along the lines of time wasting or prioritizing frolicking over one's duties or responsibilities. JamesjiaoTC 21:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

metaphor & SemperEdit

Hey James,

I noticed your contribution to the "discussion". Now I understand what SemperBlotto meant by metaphor. I think you're right.

Still, I'm sorry that you had to be the one to explain it so clearly instead of SemperBlotto. The only way he communicates to me is by reverting and blocking. Right from the start. I was therefore very harsh to him on his talkpage when I first tried to explain my vision to him. He never responded, that enfuriated me. I thought "how dare he, while he does not even speak the language?" (causing my block xD). Well, now you know that at least with a proper explanation I can take criticism even from someone who is not nearly as fluent in Dutch as I am. Cheers 11:29, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I am glad that you saw that, dude. JamesjiaoTC 08:40, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Poll on formatting of etymologiesEdit

I would like to know your preference as regards the use of "<" vs "from" in the formatting of etymologies in Wiktionary, whatever that preference is. Even explicit statement of indifference would be nice. You can state your preference in the currently running poll: WT:BP#Poll: Etymology and the use of less-than symbol. I am sending you this notification, as you took part on some of the recent votes, so chances are you could be interested in the poll. The poll benefits from having as many participants as possible, to be as representative as possible. Feel free to ignore this notification. --Dan Polansky 10:48, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Moving nonsmokerEdit

Would you please move "nonsmoker" to "non-smoker"? The latter form seems much more common on the web; the move would preserve the contribution history of "nonsmoker". I am not an admin, so I cannot move it myself, it seems. --Dan Polansky 10:43, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I've made non-smoker an alternative form of nonsmoker. Redirects should only be used in exceptional circumstances. This is not one of them. Thanks for bringing this up, however. JamesjiaoTC 22:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Sure, there should be no redirect; there should be an alternative form. But I think it should be the other way around: "non-smoker" should be the main entry, while "nonsmoker" should be an alternative form. This can be achived by mere replacing the content of the latest revision, but I thought it would be better to move "nonsmoker" to "non-smoker" so that the editing history is preserved including the addition of translations. --Dan Polansky 22:24, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Fair enough. shall do that. JamesjiaoTC 22:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
What I really thought that should be done is the following: (a) delete "non-smoker"; (b) move "nonsmoker" to "non-smoker" so the history of "nonsmoker" becomes the history of "non-smoker"; (c) create "nonsmoker" as an alternative form. The only thing that I cannot do is delete "non-smoker". So can you delete "non-smoker", thus preparing for the other actions? (Sorry for bothering you with this. I picked you as a random admin instead of going to RFC where the item would sit for ages.) --Dan Polansky 06:32, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Dan, I think I understand now. It's not a bad suggestion. Let me take a look at the history for both terms first. JamesjiaoTC 20:16, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

How do they look now? JamesjiaoTC 00:16, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
Now they look great, exactly what I had in mind. Sorry for the hassle, and thanks! --Dan Polansky 08:59, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Yair rand/uncategorized language sections/CEdit

Dunno if you can help, but we have some 'Chinese' entries according to this list. In general, Chinese character entries are such a mess they are almost unfixable. TY, Mglovesfun (talk) 00:59, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I had a look at two examples in the list: and . None of them has a 'Chinese' section. What am I looking for? JamesjiaoTC 01:04, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Vote on formatting of etymologiesEdit

There is the vote Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2011-02/Deprecating less-than symbol in etymologies, which would benefit from your participation, even if only in the role of an abstainer. Right now, the results of the vote do not quite mirror the results of the poll that has preceded the vote. There is a chance that the vote will not pass. The vote, which I thought would be a mere formality, has turned out to be a real issue. You have taken part on the poll that preceded the vote, which is why I have sent you this notification. --Dan Polansky 08:26, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Your edit on PalæstineEdit


¶ Have you ever seen this page? 22:50, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

What about this page? Mind being a little more.. elaborate? JamesjiaoTC 22:56, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

¶ What I should have wrote—which I apologise for not writing—is that this word may have usage in Danish. However, since I do not understand Danish, I do not know what exactly that word means. Surely it is recognised in Danish language, though? 23:01, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

WT:RE:da? Mglovesfun (talk) 23:16, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
I was going to suggest the same thing. Thanks MG> JamesjiaoTC 00:50, 14 March 2011 (UTC)


You mentioned at [[WT:GP#Issue with patrolling changes]] that you could no longer patrol recentchanges. Note that Ruakh's written a new script to allow this to be done again; you might want to try it out instead of Connel's, which no longer works. See [[WT:GP#patrolling script not working?]].​—msh210 (talk) 22:11, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I will take a look. JamesjiaoTC 10:17, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for the welcome and wikifying my entry; I was in a little bit of a rush this morning (UTC +7) and forgot to do so. Crisco 1492 08:04, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


Provide references then. --Surturz 02:54, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

It is in the example on learning which you reverted yet again. If you do that again, you will be blocked. This is your last warning. JamesjiaoTC 02:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

re: welcomeEdit

Thanks for welcoming me :) I have quite some editing experience with normal wikis (including Wikipedia), but Wiktionary uses a range of templates and such that I have no idea how to navigate, the whole thing is just confusing me D: I was wondering whether there would be some guide for new Wiktionary users that have Wiki experience but simply need to be introduced to this particular kind of wiki or something.. I have another question, too: should I include cognate words in etymology sections? And if I do, how do I do so? The template I copied from another entry for Middle Dutch seems not to exist for, say, Old High German or Old Frisian.. is there a list of such things? Help would be appreciated! - Cilibinarii 20:38, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

安乐, et alEdit

Great work as usual. Just one thing - we usually put the simplified derived terms in the simplified entries and the traditional derived terms in the traditional entries. Only if the entry is both simplified and traditional do we put both scripts, e.g., at 地球. Cheers. ---> Tooironic 01:09, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. Will comply. JamesjiaoTC 01:12, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Request to rename script subcategoriesEdit

There is currently a request to rename Chinese subcategories for scripts in WT:RFM. Your input would be valued. :) —CodeCat 21:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

sort keysEdit

Hi, just one small thing, I don't know if you know about the hidx field in the ja-pos template etc, but I just noticed from 元太 that it was missing so I went ahead and added it and changed the category link's sort key in the same line. There's a blurb about hidx in the documentation at Template:ja-pos and in the doc for the related ones, and I think it's written a little confusingly but basically whenever there's a word starting with げ or anything else with the two dots, in hidx it's replaced with the form without the dots and an apostrophe is put at the end of the word, so it looks like hira=げんた|hidx=けんた'. It's the same way with the category sort keys, and the skey field in the context template. For words that start with a character with a circle, it's the same except two apostrophes, so ぷう -> ふう''. Thanks Haplology 14:54, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Did not know this before. Oh well, one more thing to remember! Thanks, mate. JamesjiaoTC 05:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


Example was copied verbatim from here: w:The_Decameron and here is an explanation of a w:frame tale User:Jamesjiao

Yes, I noticed that (since I was indeed unaware of the concept of a frame tale). The layout makes it look like the example is for the (linguistic) part of the entry. I assume it is supposed to be an example for "Something that has been transcribed"? So I though a cleanup might be useful. Vaste 04:36, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
I think you might be onto something here. If I have understood the Decameron correctly, the transcriptions in the example actually refer to adaptations of the Italian folk songs, which means the example needs to be moved the {{music}} definition. JamesjiaoTC 01:25, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Is that what it means? Anyhow, I think the Wikipedia article could use some rewording. (clarification request?) We could probably keep the quote/example sentence in Wiktionary though. Vaste 05:41, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Good point. i read through the article with the assumption that the frame tales are recited by a narrator and during the interludes, music starts playing the transcriptions. Nowhere does the article mention how these transcriptions are presented to the audience. I highly doubt they just flip through the frames expecting people to know what is going on. Maybe I will do some research outside wiki to further my understanding on this subject tonight. JamesjiaoTC 05:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Mistaken editsEdit

Is this a good edit? If not, please check, because a lot are being made. Does this person really have good skill in the Mandarin language? 08:03, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

He's creating entries that are useless and unattestable. We are in the process of defining a set format for Pinyin entries, so that he no longer has any reasons for creating rubbish like this. JamesjiaoTC 02:11, 5 July 2011 (UTC)


Goden Morgen. Thank you for correction from noun to verb in the strieden-entry. Yet you also changed it from alternative spelling to alternative form. Since it has no other meaning or pronunciation than 'striden', it would be nice if you gave a reason for that. (I cannot find one in your edit note.)Dakhart 06:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi. There was a vote last year that was aimed at unifying alt spellings and alt forms under one heading. See here -> WT:Votes/pl-2010-07/Alternative_forms_header. Also, please don't forget to link to the alternative form from the original entry. JamesjiaoTC 06:22, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello again. I wrote something on the topic, which was in this place formerly. Now, I moved it here. Please feel free to take part in the discussion.Dakhart 19:33, 15 July 2011 (UTC)


I edited zwar. Seems I was not logged in. In short: It is certainly wrong. But if I remember right, the usage as "indeed" was used in the middle ages. It has, however, not survived and is lexically violating grammar nowadays.Dakhart 23:34, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Maybe instead of deleting it, you should mark it as obsolete or dated? JamesjiaoTC 00:22, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Well, I'm not sure whether, technically, Middle High German and High German are the same language or two different languages of which one turned into the other. Because the differences are easily as great as between German and Dutch. The meaning of "indeed" is that old. Dated, obsolete and archaic might still create a wrong impression. Duden (the regulator for High German language) gives gmh "z(e)wāre" (probably 'to the true') as "indeed". I'd rather consider it a predecessor to zwar, since zwar is a fixed adverb with only the meaning now in the entry. If you stumble upon the usage of "zwar" as indeed in a text from let's say after 1400, I could accept an entry as archaic. But as yet I would have quite some unease doing it.Dakhart 00:41, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


Hi James, I just noticed you removed my addition to Publicate, could you let me know some more details around your concern and what modifications I could make so that I can still contribute and you think it is satisfactory?


Northern EnglishEdit

English as spoken by folk in the north. Geordies, Mackems, Durham, etc...

Just to be clear as this is a dictionary. I corrected it to say: Northern England. Please note the template I used. Thanks. JamesjiaoTC 22:53, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


¶ I just feel sorry to see you clean‐up so many entries. Could I offer any assistance? --Pilcrow 01:31, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

It was actually not that bad. Just hold down Shift then click on rollback on all his edits. Took me 2 minutes. Thanks for offering assistance though. JamesjiaoTC 03:59, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


Thank you, James. And sorry for the mess, I'm completely new on the Wiktionary. Kintaro 04:13, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Of course I saw your changes! thank you again! Kintaro 04:22, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


I don't think this, and similar edits, are good. If someone is looking for the Mandarin "yapo" (knowing only the phonetic spelling) they'll only find the Spanish. Contributions/ 05:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the users can't find the word if they don't know the tone. But most of the mandarin learners don't know the tone. Engirst 12:37, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
untoned pinyin is no longer allowed. Therefore I am deleting them all. A toned pinyin entry needs to be created in its stead and it needs to point to the relevant character entries from there. JamesjiaoTC 06:09, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
That being said, we might later include untoned entries as nonstandard spellings that point to the toned entries. The point here is to reduce redundancy and the amount of work required to maintain Mandarin entries as a whole. JamesjiaoTC 06:11, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
The entries of traditional and simplified character are the biggest redundancy. Engirst 12:30, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
You have a better idea, then suggest it. Your 一意孤行is not gonna get you anywhere. JamesjiaoTC 20:27, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Do you think that the entries of traditional and simplified character are big redundancy? Engirst 11:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
You mean the fact they are duplicated or the fact that they exist at all? JamesjiaoTC 21:24, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
As you said that they are duplicated. (Please see here). Engirst 01:28, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
So what do you suggest without prefering one form over the other? JamesjiaoTC 05:47, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
This should be a good solution. There is no duplication of entries of the dictionary of this "good solution". Please see the search results of "蘋果", "苹果", "ping2guo3" and "pingguo", there is no duplication indeed. Engirst 09:43, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
That dictionary is not Wiktionary, and more specifically is not based on the Wikimedia software. It would be preferable to work within the system we have today. Vaste 02:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I had a look at the site. The idea is good, but you have to remember that we are dealing with a wiki website. It can be easily done with ASP/C# codebehind with MSSQL backend, but it won't work with the existing structure on Wiktionary without changing the underlying implementation of the code that makes up this website. Redirection would be the closest alternative but is not realistically viable as Chinese characters are used in other languages as well, both Simple and Traditional. JamesjiaoTC 23:38, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Interesting approachEdit

I find it interesting that someone can create a page, maybe not perfectly, to a word, and include a citation on the talk page, then to have it deleted, and without any reference to the person who created the page. What a very encouraging approach that you take as an administrator. You may take a moment to reflect upon your approach. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:26, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Assuming it's the same page that I am thinking of and I have deleted many in the past few days, there was nothing on the page except a few boxes. If you are not sure how to create a page properly, use the WT:Sandbox or create your own one on your user space. If you don't have the willingness to learn, then maybe this is not the place for you. JamesjiaoTC 23:31, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
By the way, I don't remember being your student or your offspring last time I checked, so maybe you want to dial down your condescending tone a bit? JamesjiaoTC 11:35, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Any knowledge about Template:nonstandard spelling of?Edit

As mentioned on that Talk page, the font used makes it impossible to tell what tones are marked on pinyin text. I don't suppose you have any idea how to fix that? -- Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 16:27, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I am taking a look at the template now. At this stage, I am not sure why wiki would pick this god awful font over the standard font used else where on the webiste. JamesjiaoTC 23:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
It's been fixed by Yair rand. See here. JamesjiaoTC 00:52, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Brilliant, thank you! -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 18:22, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

About the redirectEdit

Lol, I didn't know about that, thanks for letting me know. :)

Although すばらしい means the same as 素晴らしい, it's just that the former is used primarily by children not yet familiar with the Chinese characters 素 and 晴. Even learned adults sometimes write すばらしい as is (using Hiragana only), due to the reason that the adjective ending -しい is very easy to recognize and hence the Hiragana preceding -しい stands out as an adjective, that and because すばらしい is easier to write. So perhaps you can delete the すばらしい page... 'cause both of them are the same word...?

--HFret 04:35, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm gonna have a wild guess and say you haven't read WT:AJA and WT:REDIR as you were requested to. Mglovesfun (talk) 04:37, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes sir, I did read that paragraph about redirects. And I believe that there is room for improvement in the Hiragana/Kanji duplicate word conflict. I think deleting that Hiragana (すばらしい) page should do it ;)

--HFret 04:41, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

entry layoutEdit

is there something specific you want to point out to me, because it is a very long and convoluted essay and you cannot expect me to learn it all nor need it all today tomorrow or this week.Gtroy 08:09, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Mandarin pinyinEdit

How easy/realistic would it be to format Mandarin pinyin by bot? What about toneless pinyin syllables? Would go right to the Beer Parlour with this but it's 00.29 and I need sleep first. --Mglovesfun (talk) 23:30, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Are you able to elaborate on this? What do you mean by formatting pinyin entries? Which parts specifically? JamesjiaoTC 02:41, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
Well, applying this, converting all the headers to Romanization is one obvious task. But that won't be that easy. Mglovesfun (talk) 08:53, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
For a start, there's this, though it's imperfect, it will catch some entries. The format of Mandarin pinyin is so varied that a bot can only do so much, but there are about 6500 Mandarin pinyin entries, so doing them all by hand would take literally years. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:54, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
It should be easy converting the PoS headers, but it's the rest of an entry that's the problem. I can't see an easy way to automate conversion of existing definitions. Since the def needs to be brief (I'd pick the most common one), how does a bot know which def/PoS is more common? I see what you want to do here, but to answer your question, it's not easy/realistic to format everything. What is more realistic is to delete the ones that don't follow the new format. JamesjiaoTC 02:40, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Questions about 主教, 豬腳 and 猪脚Edit

1. What is the function for "sc=Hani", "sc=Hant" and "sc=Hans"?

Use Hani when it's both tra and sim. Use Hant when it's tra only and Hans when it's sim only.
But it has no difference even we don't use them. Engirst 03:47, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

2. Why do we duplicate the traditional and simplified characters in the definition line and the "zh-forms"? Engirst 03:19, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Good question. I have wondered about this myself, as I did not start this practice. Thought this was a little redundant. Maybe best to direct the second question to Tooironic. JamesjiaoTC 03:24, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Anyway, the format of Hanzi entries are too complicated. Engirst 03:55, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

  • What have you two been doing? Silly children. Simplified characters are used in the simplified entries; traditional characters in the traditional entries. There are no spaces in Chinese! The information is duplicated in those entries because Wiktionary as of yet has not found a way to synchronise simp/trad entries without favouring one over the other. Just follow the rules User:123abc for once and stop making us clean up after you. ---> Tooironic 22:25, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
    I am not sure what spacing you are refering to? Anyway, I think you misunderstood what he meant. He's asking since the two forms already appear in the zh-forms Hanzi box, why do they need to appear again in the inline templates (such as cmn-noun.. etc). I don't think this has anything to do with preference over a writing form. JamesjiaoTC 02:33, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

soft redirects for mixed-script entriesEdit

James, you argued in RFD in favour of deleting mixed-script entries because they're not used or understood by monolingual Chinese speakers. After lots of discussion, Dan or Lmaltier (or possibly someone else first) suggested the alternative of "soft redirects" — bare-bones entries like the one I made here (and which Anatoli,, Dan and I have discussed here) that would qualify mixed-script forms as "Nonstandard, mixed-script rendition of 普朗克常数 (Pǔlǎngkè chángshù)." (or of whatever term), would explain via usage notes that the mixed-script forms are proscribed (regarded as incorrect and not recognised by other Chinese dictionaries) and unlikely to be understood by monolingual speakers of Chinese, and would point to the all-Hanzi entries as the standard forms. I understand that you, Tooironic, Anatoli and native speaker don't want people to think mixed-script terms are standard in Chinese, but Dan, Lmaltier and Prosfilaes don't want to exclude attestable terms. (Which makes sense — as I said in my first comment in the RFD debate over Thames河, ‘If it "will not be understood by any monolingual Chinese speaker", that speaker might want to look it up in a dictionary’!) Would soft redirects like that be acceptable to you as a compromise? That way, we cover the term, but we make clear that it isn't standard (indeed, that it isn't intelligible), so no one is mislead. What do you think? - -sche (discuss) 04:28, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

PS, bear in mind, as I note on the page I linked to, that we would only have soft redirects for attestable mixed-script terms. Any mixed-script terms Engirst couldn't cite we would delete as RFV-failed, and any whole English words (like "国外大学了解你专业上的qualifications,几乎完全是靠审查各种申请文件来实现的。") we would delete from Chinese sections per the not unanimous but nevertheless overwhelming consensus of the RFD and BP discussions (even editors who want to keep the mixed-script terms). - -sche (discuss) 04:52, 9 October 2011 (UTC)



Thanks for fixing/creating. I have formatted a few Mandarin mixed script terms, e.g. e學習 and e学习, which are good and need to be kept but only started flagging the ones to be fixed later. --Anatoli 01:13, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I will keep an eye on them. JamesjiaoTC 01:29, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. It's a good idea if we separate standard or acceptable "mixed script" entries from the non-standard "mixed language", which are to be converted to soft redirects or deleted. --Anatoli 01:40, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


sorry i have been trying not to make any mistakes so i have been doing it all from memory cause when i cut n paste its always a mess, hey could you add the audio for nigger from the talk page to the article and add niggerhead to the see also or derived terms there for me please?Acdcrocks 03:23, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Done. Equinox got there before me. JamesjiaoTC 03:28, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/2011-10/Categories of names 3Edit

Because you voted in Wiktionary:Votes/2011-07/Categories of names, I'm informing you of this new vote.​—msh210 (talk) 01:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Sort key in French entriesEdit

Hello. Mglovesfun suggested that my bot add sort keys to French entries and I undertook this task. However, I don't know when I'll be able to re-examine French categories and add again missing sort keys, so I wonder if you could put a sort key (manually) in your new French entries as well. --flyax 20:17, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I am assuming I only need to use the sort key when a word has accented letters? I have no problem with that if it helps endusers. JamesjiaoTC 22:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes. Accented letters are replaced with usual unaccented ones and hyphens (-) with spaces when in the middle of a word. Anything else (',. etc) is omitted. If there is no need for a sort key we don't put it. --flyax 22:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Mixed script Mandarin entriesEdit

Please join Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2011-10/Mixed script Mandarin entries. Your opinion is important. --Anatoli 06:03, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Anatoli. Been a heck of a weekend with the Rugby World Cup final and all that. JamesjiaoTC 22:19, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Can you help?Edit

I'm not sure which parts of speech to use for 多多. 23:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I had already fixed it after I saw the message you left behind on another Mandarin editor's talkpage. I think it was HBrug, but not sure. JamesjiaoTC 21:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Deleting promotional materialEdit

Hi there. When deleting promotional material, could you make sure that the offending material does not appear in the log. Cheers. SemperBlotto 08:54, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Yep, I saw what you did there. JamesjiaoTC 08:54, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

union high schoolEdit

You said it's only a term used in the U.S.. You're probably right Purplebackpack89 (Notes Taken) (Locker) 21:16, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks dude. JamesjiaoTC 21:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)



I moved Mandarin entries to full-width numbers, which work better with Chinese characters and are used along with normal width letters. Japanese also use full-width Roman letters, like JR, which doesn't seem common with Chinese, so I made 3K產業 and 3K产业 using full-width "3" and a normal "K". What do you think about this?

I personally don't have a problem, but how easy is it for people who wants to search for the term? JamesjiaoTC 23:14, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I created a redirect and if you try typing "JR", both JR and JR will appear, they will also appear in the search results. --Anatoli (обсудить) 23:47, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I would appreciate your help on creating 唧哇亂叫/唧哇乱叫 (jī wa luàn jiào), if you think it merits an entry. I asked User talk:Hbrug but he seems to have gone away for some time. --Anatoli (обсудить) 22:59, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

It surely is idiomatic. I mean, you can't really tell what it means by simply looking at individual character in the phrase. It's used in contexts like expression of pain (synonym: 喊爹喊娘) or expression of excitement (synonym: 手舞足蹈). I will add it later today. JamesjiaoTC 23:14, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks in advance! This expression from 哈利波特与魔法石 has been bugging me for a while. I couldn't find a single dictionary entry that explains or translates it. Here's the context: ...德思礼太太高高兴兴,一直絮絮叨叨,把唧哇乱叫的达力塞到了儿童椅里. --Anatoli (обсудить) 23:47, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Here it means 'to scream in protest'. The whole sentence 德思礼先生哼着小曲,挑出一条最不喜欢的领带戴着上班,德思礼太太高高兴兴,一直絮絮叨叨,把唧哇乱叫的达力塞到了儿童椅里。 translates to something like Mr Dursley picked out his least favourite work tie as he hummed along to a tune, while Mrs Dursley nagged away happily while stuffing a protesting Dudley into his child's chair (I assume they refer to the high chair here, but since I haven't read the original, I wouldn't know). JamesjiaoTC 03:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Yeah, your translation is right. I actually understood the whole sentence but couldn't think of a good translation for 唧哇乱叫. --Anatoli (обсудить) 12:13, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Honestly your level of understanding in Chinese is very advanced! JamesjiaoTC 20:25, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
你过奖了。 :) --Anatoli (обсудить) 00:12, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

- Compounds for MandarinEdit

Kia ora James --

Our 90.x IP user has surprised me lately with a much higher quality of edit, at least for Japanese entries. I'm happy to see this, and I'm hoping the longer block they just got out from under has prompted them to change what they're doing for the long haul.

That said, this edit to the entry adds some glosses to compounds, and "仙境: wonderland" in particular makes me wonder. (Ha.) For JA at least, 小学館 gives the same meaning for 仙境 and 仙界, as 「仙人の住むところ。」 This doesn't sound like wonderland to me, as the English term brings to mind fanciful visions of things that kids might enjoy -- white poofy clouds and sunshine and rainbows and ponies and candy -- but is notably absent of the sometimes-wizened, irascible, capricious, and powerful kind of being that I understand 仙人 to be. What's your take on this 仙境 word, from a Chinese-meaning perspective? -- Tēnā rawa atu koe, Eiríkr ÚtlendiTala við mig 18:33, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Kia ora Eiríkr. This is a good one. I am very familiar with these terms as I used to watch and love the Monkey King. It's actually pretty hard to translate 仙境 as it doesn't really have an English equivalent. According to the legends (in the Journey to the West anyway), 仙境 refers to the place in the heavens where gods/immortals dwell. Note that this is different from the Christian 天堂, but more loosely based on the Buddhist ideals of a paradise mixed with Chinese pagan elements. So to translate, I'd probably define it as paradise/heavens. That being said, however, the definition wonderland is also acceptable. One of the most noticeable usage of it is w:Alice in Wonderland, which is translated into 爱丽丝梦游仙境. As for 仙女 and 仙人, sage is not the best translation; immortal is probably more appropriate, as they are, well, immortal after all :). His definition for 成仙 is ok. Just use the analogy of Theseus after he died slaying Hyperion in this film. 成仙 is simply the Chinese version of it. Hope I didn't spoil the film for ya, haha. JamesjiaoTC 23:29, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh, 仙境 can be extended to mean any beautiful fantastic location that one is not used to seeing, such as this. JamesjiaoTC 23:44, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

start buttonEdit

start button, I made some edits which you may be interested in seeing.Lucifer 11:52, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

plz unblock our dataEdit

Hello, Jamesjiao. I am sunrise120, a member of Language Research Institute in Korea. My colleagues and I are very interested in artificial languages such as Esperanto, Ido etc. Languauge Research Institute itself has made a constructed language, Unish(the only conlang in Korea)since 1996. Recently we are uploading the result at Korean Wiktionary, and we also want to share them here at English wiktionary. We are planning to share the contents(histroy, grammer, phology...) of Unish at Wikipedia. But one of our member K11312 was blocked by you, because you judged his uploading work stupid. May I ask you to unblock him? This is wholly academic work and we publish an academic journal twice per year. (visit here Please unblock K11312 and make us keep contributing. Thank you very much. -- 02:42, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Is this an artificial language just you just started to develop or it has been in use for a while? I can unblock him, but please DO NOT start including entries for a language that this dictionary does not support before having discussed it with the administrators on including the language first. I will initiate a topic in the Beer Parlour about this. I'd appreciate your input there. JamesjiaoTC 02:54, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Nouns and proper nounsEdit

Hey, I've started a discussion in the Beer Parlor. I'd really like to know the community views on this. Any additional input would be great. Thanks. – Krun 14:05, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

阿拉 - both I and weEdit


I only know a couple of words in Shanghainese and 阿拉 is among them. Although it's supposed to mean "we", strangely enough, it also means "I". 阿拉勿懂 actually means - "I don't understand" and "we don't understand". Some Chinese guy confirmed this for me a long time ago.--Anatoli (обсудить) 00:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Let me mumble to myself for a bit to get a grasp on what this phrase really means being a native Shanghainese speaker myself. JamesjiaoTC 00:41, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Definitely not in my experience. I did some research on it. Apparently its meaning of 'I' originated from 苏北话 and was not part of the local lingo. Therefore this usage is largely limited to people from the lower income areas in Shanghai such as 闸北 and 南市. However since people move around so much in Shanghai, this demarcation has faded with time. So if you live in Shanghai, you'd find both people who use this to refer to themselves as individuals and people who use this to refer to a group including themselves. Anyway, I will add it back, but as a different definition as the two meanings are distinguished. JamesjiaoTC 01:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for that, Jamesjiao. When I asked about it (it appears literally in one of the volumes of "New Practical Chinese Reader" after a female protagonist travelled to Shanghai and showed off her Shanghainese), it caused a discussion, so it wasn't straightforward and is a bit subtle for a non-native speaker to understand or make parallels. I remember someone also said it showed some slight arrogance on the speaker's side calling himself/herself "we". --Anatoli (обсудить) 02:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
I have to agree with you on the arrogance part. It'd be very strange for someone to come up to me and refer to himself/herself as 阿拉; my first reaction would be - uh, ok, but you and what army? :). There are so many slang terms in Shanghainese that they will blow your mind. JamesjiaoTC 02:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)


Hi there. Are you sure about the conjugation? According to fr.wiktionary it conjugates according to "fr-conj-1-éer" - but I can't see the difference. I'll stop the bot from generating inflected forms of it for now. SemperBlotto 19:55, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the conjugation is correct. The only reason I can think of is potential changes in pronunciation of the stem in some of the conjugation forms. Note that the same applies to 'fr-conj-1-ier' - same spelling changes as 'fr-conj-1' but potential pronunciation changes in the stem. If you need further confirmation, take a look at this: wordreference. Also, check out créer, which falls in the same category as énucléer. JamesjiaoTC 20:20, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Hmm yeah, these are regular, when transitive in Scrabble they produce words ending -eee (no diacritics in Scrabble). Créée is another well-known one, had played more recently than three years ago I could no doubt name quite a few more! Mglovesfun (talk) 18:29, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Diminutive for wolfEdit

Why did you undo my edit on the page, wolf?
-Britannic124 02:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

English diminutives are not true diminutives and do not appear on the header line like Dutch does. That's why we don't have an option for it in the {{en-noun}} template. You may, however, place it under the Related terms section if you wish. JamesjiaoTC 03:11, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Category:Entries with template subst detritusEdit

Not quite sure what you've done here, I thought {{new cmn pinyin}} might have a bug, but it doesn't. If possible, could you fix these? BTW I know you've been doing a lot of work on wikifying Mandarin pinyin and I really appreciate it (as do others, no doubt). Mglovesfun (talk) 18:27, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

That is because i did not use that template. I used {{cmn-rh}}, my own template. Should have checked the entries after I have done them. Anyway, will start using the one you recommended and delete mine. Will fix tne entries later. There aren't too many of them. JamesjiaoTC 19:39, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


From Ancient Greek via Latin, no? Anything else prefixed with métro-? Mglovesfun (talk) 23:40, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I am working on it right now :). JamesjiaoTC 23:42, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
Done a few. Two different etyls. JamesjiaoTC 23:58, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the promotionEdit

Jamesjiao, thanks very much for the promotion to autopatroller — much appreciated! ;) -- Cirt (talk) 01:35, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

No problem. Equinox was the one who nominated you. JamesjiaoTC 01:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

User:Mglovesfun/to do/cmn noun Latn first letterEdit

This is up-to-date and to the best of my knowledge the only Mandarin pinyin which needs reformatting (excluding prefixes, suffixes and morphemes, I will finish them before the end of tomorrow). I would really appreciate your help with this, including removing done items from the list; if you have the patience to do it. Obviously formatting the entries is more important than removing them from the list. Cheers, Mglovesfun (talk) 10:41, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

I am going through Category:Mandarin_derived_terms at the moment with AWB deleting/reformatting as perceived necessary. I will get to Category:Mandarin_pinyin eventually. JamesjiaoTC 22:11, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


Just take note of the additional senses I added, as well as the RS which had to be fixed. ---> Tooironic 01:06, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. That sense is I think very regional (probably Northern China). No one I know use it that way. JamesjiaoTC 01:07, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Please explain me 𐎠𐎼𐎷𐎡𐎴 etymology .Edit

Hi Is it ethnonym or toponyms? --Shahriyar İsmayil 13:34, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I reverted your entry because you created an extra etymology section. You might want to discuss this with User:Vahagn Petrosyan who might know a little more about this. JamesjiaoTC 21:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of substitute forEdit

Hi James, you deleted the redirection page substitute for commenting "--explanation of deletion--". Could you clarify? --Chealer 18:12, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I have already clarified this on your talkpage. JamesjiaoTC 18:57, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi James, you deleted the redirection page substitute for because, according to you, "we don't do redirections unless it's been specifically discussed and allowed". What makes you think we don't do redirections unless it's been specifically discussed and allowed? --Chealer (talk) 02:06, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

template help offerEdit

Thanks for you help about the french template and for the correction (décolleté).
As a native french speaker, the new translation you add sounds strange to me. I won't translate collarless (sans col) or V-shaped collar (col en V) into décolleté. I look this word up into two french dictionaries and in one of them your translation could be an extrapolation of the definition. The usage of french may differ from place to place, you could point out which country it is used in if you have hearded it used. The etymology of the word which is literrally without collar is used by the actual third translation 'decapitated' : during the 1st french revolution many nobles had their collar (head) removed.
Walpole 16:49, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi James, my english might not have been clear. Despite the etymology the word décolleté doesn't mean without collar ( This meaning was lost since this word was used as an euphemism in the 18th century for decapitated ) but means whose collar, breast, shoulders or even back is not entirely covered. Please check this dictionary online up (TLFi (standing for Trésor de la Langue Fançaise informatisé )) whose definition is different from What is tricky is the past prudery of our language... literally you are right but cou or gorge used to be used for bossom... And to make it more difficult, today in french, décolleté can means décolletage and cleavage with no way to determine whether the locutor is dealing with a dress or a part of a female breast. Eventually, I would prefer use the word échancré more technical without female connotation for a male garnement.Walpole 12:38, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
If you need help about the meaning of a french word let me know : my SUL account (I work on different wikimedia projects - fr.wikisource and fr.wiktionary at the moment).Walpole 14:59, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Merci Walpole. JamesjiaoTC 06:10, 18 February 2012 (UTC)


Hi. Could you give some justification for your reversion of reinforce? The current page lacks mention of the sense of support with resources or personnel, and a site from the Oxford University Press seems like a reliable source.
Ulmanor 01:49, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Two reasons: 1) It shares the same etymology as the rest of the definitions. 2) It's an extension of the first definition. Maybe first definition can be expanded to include the typical resources that are required to strengthen. JamesjiaoTC 02:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)


I did the best I could. I've taken a couple of botany classes, but I'm not a botanist either (the nearsighted leading the blind?). "Cordaites" is the name of the genus, "cordaite" is the the noun/adjective derived from it. I'm assuming that cordaites are limited to the genus, but there are other genera in the family Cordaitaceae Wikipedia article, so I could be wrong. I figure it's better to risk being slightly wrong than in delimiting the group than to be uselessly vague.

As it stood, you were saying that any extinct gymnosperm with threadlike leaves could be a cordaite (filiform=threadlike). Given that one source says the leaves could be 15 cm wide, threadlike isn't the right term. The technical term for strap-shaped is "ligulate", but there's no reason to use it when explaining things to non-botanists. I suppose you could substitute "family Cordaitaceae" or "order Cordaitales" for "genus Cordaites", but we know that cordaite applies to the genus and we're just guessing about the family and order.

Paleobotany gets confusing, too, because they have a separate system of form-taxa, with fossils of the wood under one names, fossils of the leaves under another, etc. That's because fossils are rare, and fossils with all the parts in one piece are even rarer- there are just so many bits and pieces that would go un-named if they waited until they found an example with all the important parts in one specimen. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:46, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Some very useful insights to take from this. Thanks Chuck. JamesjiaoTC 03:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)


Sorry about the pronominal thingy. In which case, the red link needs to be redirected to abstenir on the English Wiktionary. 20:20, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

I did. Did you check the entry again? JamesjiaoTC 20:22, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Goals and ways of blockingEdit

Hi James, you have blocked this account. Your block reason reads "Edit warring with admin - chill mate.". You did not warn nor notify the blocked account. The editor blocked had not acted in bad faith.

If the above is incorrect, please let me know and accept my apologies. Otherwise, please take care when blocking editors in good faith. These accounts should not be blocked like those of spammers or vandals. A proper block reason should be provided. A block reason should be clear. It should also stick to the point. For clarity, please write using full sentences. Unless you think the editor violated a policy, please clearly explain what the editor did wrong. You should also specify the actions which you believe were wrong.

Finally, to stay civil, please warn the editor before recoursing to blocks, which are only meant as a last recourse. Wikipedia's blocking policy explains the goals of blocks and how they should be done.

Thank you --Chealer (talk) 04:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi! I'm not a Wiktionarian, really. Nor do I actually speak latin. But the page repeto made me confused. More people than I want to see the word "repeat" on that page, obviously. Since this is an edit of yours [1] perhaps you'd like to take a look at the talk page?

As I said, I'm not really into Wiktionary and may have understood. --Viol (talk) 17:21, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

<butting in> Added. </butting in> SemperBlotto (talk) 17:41, 13 March 2012 (UTC)


I saw your sig on user_talk:'s, and thought you might be able to help, or at least enlighten me. Are you an admin on Wiktionary? I ask because I am not, and because, in looking back at a message I left for 81.68...(2Jan.2011), I see that someone inserted 2 outlinks into my message. They aren't mine. I started to try them, to see where they'd take me, but I caught myself: I've activated a virus that way, before: trying a strange link is kind of like tasting something in a strange bottle in a lab to find out what it is: NOT the recommended approach.

Anyway, I hesitate to delete items from someone else's talkpage. No telling how old they are, probably harmless, but one never knows, and there are evil/mischievous people in the world. The best approach might be just to delete them. You can answer here, or on my talkpage. If you're not an admin, let me know, and I'll try someone else. Ragityman (talk) 15:55, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

It's added by the IP whose talkpage you commented on. They are not viruses, just proxies of some educational institution, which others usually don't have access to. He probably didn't know that. JamesjiaoTC 03:53, 18 March 2012 (UTC)


Seems the page was quietly vandalized at the end of 2011, and you're the first person to spot it. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:38, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

That's what I thought, but didn't bother to go through the history. JamesjiaoTC 00:17, 21 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi, I see you've added the clean up tag on the Serer article but failed to state your reason why. Perhaps you can tell me why you thougt it was messy, since I can't find your rationale in neither the article's discussion page nor the discussion page I've been directed to by your tag. Tamsier (talk) 06:07, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I actually had already cleaned part of it, but left the rest for others. You might wish to check the history and see how the entry has evolved since you first edited it. JamesjiaoTC 00:31, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


Quit your whining. Fix it and shut up. 00:27, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I did fix it. If you want to do a job, then do it properly. Abusing people is not going to get you anywhere. JamesjiaoTC 00:29, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


Back in May last year you removed a tag stating that the second definition of welfare as meaning a government payment was U.S. usage. By doing so you seem to be claiming that this IS general usage in the English speaking world outside of the U.S. I am English by birth and I have to say that I disagree with you.

If in England we talk about welfare payments we are using welfare to mean "wellbeing" and the word payment is added to mean the payment (because welfare, of itself, does NOT mean a payment in British English). If we talk about a WELFARE STATE, we mean a state in which there is well-being among the citizenry. We do not mean a state where people live on money given to them by the government, which is how Americans would interpret that. That is the difference.

I have just visited the websites of the Ontario provincial government in Canada, the Federal government website in Canada, and the Australian government websites (i.e. good reference sites for English usage in those countries) and searched in each for the word WELFARE. In none of these could I find a usage matching the second definition. In each case, what came back were references to, for example, Child Welfare, Animal Welfare, Health and Welfare. These are all references to Welfare in the sense of WELLBEING. I saw reference to Welfare Payments but again this is welfare in the sense of WELLBEING. I did not see any sentence where the word WELFARE could be replaced with the words GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL PAYMENT and keep the same meaning. I know that American websites frequently refer to WELFARE as meaning GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL PAYMENT (definition 2.). If you are right in your sense that the term is widely used outside of the United States to mean a payment itself, can you find some reasonably well recognized official source (a government web site or a political party perhaps) from a major English speaking nation (UK, Australia, Canada, Ireland perhaps) where meaning 2. can be ascribed?

The growth of the internet does of course mean that there is more and more crossover these days, so American usage is well understood and some creep of American English into for example British English is inevitable and indeed normal. But I would still not say that Brits generally refer to Welfare as the financial assistance given to help the poor. The term for that is SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFIT or simply BENEFITS (housing benefit, child benefit etc.). American use of the word WELFARE is directly meaning a government payment, because as far as I can see, this is not a contraction of WELFARE PAYMENT or WELFARE BENEFIT (which it is when it is, rarely, used in the UK to refer to a payment itself). And as far as I can tell, Canadian and Australian English seems to follow the British usage. Hence I would argue that meaning 2 (a PAYMENT) is chiefly U.S. usage.



Do you mind checking/formatting Mandarin translations for balance? It would take me some time to check them. :) --Anatoli (обсудить) 04:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Done. I don't see any in the Verb translations section. Maybe I will add them later if I remember :). JamesjiaoTC 04:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! --Anatoli (обсудить) 05:16, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
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