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Wiktionary:Grease pit/2015/October

< Wiktionary:Grease pit

Category:English timelines beginning in the 21th century edit

Obvious problem is obvious; can anyone fix this? This, that and the other (talk) 02:41, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So, the problem is "21th" where it should be "21st"? I'm going to fix that now. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 02:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. FYI, you can move categories these days, rather than deleting and recreating. This, that and the other (talk) 04:15, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I did not know that. Thanks for the info. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 04:27, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Idea for a vandalism filter edit

This would take a bit of messing about with regular expressions, but I've noticed quite a common habit of drive-by vandalism by simply changing the language header (e.g. "German" to "Russian"). Equinox ◑ 15:17, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose we could make this behavior generate a tag? L2-header-change or something. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 15:19, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would just prevent, because there's no way an anon would do that legitimately. If nothing else, there should be a filter for Ladin > Latin. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Changing language headers is quite the sport these days (as it has been for a long time). Mostly it's changing "English" to anything that sounds foreign, with "Spanish" and "Chinese" being quite common. Then there are the people from different places in the Third World changing "English" to whatever is spoken in their country. The "Latin" > "Ladin" changes happen consistently every month or so, by IPs from all over the place- which makes it look more like ignorance than vandalism. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:53, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I see IPs correcting old vandalism all the time- including L2 headers. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:49, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Chuck Entz: Here we go again. It doesn't matter whether it's ignorance or vandalism — a filter to deal with it would save us a chance of the error slipping through. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:16, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If it's possible to prevent anons from changing L2 headers while still allowing them to edit the rest of a page, go for it. Otherwise, I support a filter tagging anons' edits to L2 headers. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 05:33, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Regional labels that apply to more than one language edit

At Talk:nae, someone brought up the fact that {{label|sco|Doric}} puts the word into Category:Doric Ancient Greek and provides a link to w:Doric Greek. It should, of course, put the word into Category:Doric Scots and provide a link to w:Doric dialect (Scotland). Another label that covers multiple languages is "Ulster": there is Ulster English, Ulster Irish, and Ulster Scots. In this case, the categories work correctly, but the Wikipedia links all point to w:Ulster, when it would more helpful for them to point to w:Ulster English, w:Ulster Irish, and w:Ulster Scots dialects. Unfortunately, I don't know how to edit Module:labels/data/regional to fix these labels, and any others that may be similar. (The "Munster" and "Connacht" labels also point to the Wikipedia articles on the provinces of Ireland rather than the articles on the dialects.) —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:13, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is why I recently made a strict separation between regional labels and dialects in the data modules. Of course, that doesn't actually help in this situation, but I was aware of that then. The current system doesn't allow you to give language-specific data for labels, which is a big shortcoming. But it should be pretty easy to add this in. —CodeCat 17:49, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I just realise that making language-specific labels bring some new difficulties. Currently, aliases of labels are defined language-agnostically. If we introduce language-specific information, we may run into the situation where an alias only applies for a given language, but not for others. For example, if we have a label "Northern German" defined only for German, and a label "Northern Germany" as an alias of it, then something's going to break when someone uses it with "nds" as the language. It would also give a nonsensical result if it were the other way around: if "Northern Germany" were the main label, then "Northern German" could be used for languages other than German. —CodeCat 17:59, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What about making the labels themselves language-specific, e.g. instead of {{label|grc|Doric}} and {{label|sco|Doric}} we have {{label|grc|grc-Doric}} and {{label|sco|sco-Doric}}, and likewise {{label|en|en-Ulster}}, {{label|ga|ga-Ulster}}, and {{label|sco|sco-Ulster}}? We'd only need to do that for ambiguous labels; those that are unambiguous could keep their current names. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:43, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That seems pretty pointless. We already provide the language in the template, why provide it a second time in the label? —CodeCat 18:52, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Because "[t]he current system doesn't allow you to give language-specific data for labels, which is a big shortcoming." —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:59, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but it's easy to allow language-specific data. The only difficulty is in the aliases. —CodeCat 23:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Can we at least do something promptly about the fact that of the 19 terms currently in Category:Doric Ancient Greek, 11 are Scots? —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 07:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To fix the immediate issue, create "Doric Scots" as a label. - -sche (discuss) 04:47, 4 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I did that. Now Category:Doric Ancient Greek contains no Scots words and Category:Doric Scots is not empty. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 07:01, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We do already have some labels with language-specific names, e.g. we have "Pomeranian Low German" (shortcut "Pomeranian LG") because I anticipated that bare "Pomerania"/"Pomeranian" could also apply to German, Polish, or the so-called Pomeranian languages. - -sche (discuss) 03:15, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Another thing to think about: regional varieties of earlier languages that develop into languages in their own right, and other types of change in regional terminology.
Really, though, our entire label system is a hopeless mess. Currently there's no way to distinguish geographically- or historically-based contexts from regional language varieties: it should be possible to have English entries with a context of "Germany" when they refer to German political parties without adding the entry to Category:German English, or to use "Classical" to tag English terms about Greek and Roman people and institutions from a couple of millennia ago without categorizing into Category:Classical English.
We might even be better off going to a three-way system, with the current Frankenstein-monster system for backward compatibility and to accommodate users who are used to it, a new dedicated context/topical system, and a new dedicated language-variety system (his would have the added benefit of easily allowing things like labels for terms about a regional lect that aren't in the regional lect). Normally, this kind of inconsistent, complicated setup would be something to avoid at all costs, but the current setup is so bad and at the same time so entrenched that it would seem to be the only way to achieve anything close to sanity. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:05, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Categorization of homonymous suffixes edit

In cases where a language has two homonymous derivational suffixes - is there anything we could do for distinguishing these in categorization? For example, Category:Finnish words suffixed with -lainen currently mixes two homonymous but etymologically, semantically and morphophonologically distinct suffixes. --Tropylium (talk) 01:15, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You can use the id= parameter to distinguish them. —CodeCat 06:50, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On what? {{suffix}} does not seem to do anything with an id= parameter. --Tropylium (talk) 16:44, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The parameters for {{suffix}} are all numbered according to which part they refer to. So you need id2= and such. —CodeCat 16:53, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The pos=noun, pos=adjective, etc. parameter will distinguishing them in categorization. --Panda10 (talk) 12:32, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That only works if they have different parts of speech, and even then it feels inferior to the id= method. —CodeCat 13:27, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

{{reflist}} tag not detected when saving edit

The {{reflist}} tag is not detected when saving, resulting in this notice. —Skyllfully (talk) 23:35, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Do we even need that template? It seems rather complicated. —CodeCat 23:59, 6 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No opinion on the need for the template, but if we have it the abuse filter should understand it. Can the abuse filter expand templates? - TheDaveRoss 17:26, 28 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

rip Special:WantedPages? edit

Does anyone know why Special:WantedPages is no longer to be updated? It that a mediawiki decision?

I've found it a very handy indication of both actual wanted pages and of cruft generated by various templates using questionable techniques. DCDuring TALK 06:41, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Special:WantedCategories recently went for a week without updating, so it may just be a matter of reduced frequency rather than completely stopping. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:36, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

bras edit

What's wrong with the Derived Terms in the French section of bras? Can someone fix it? SemperBlotto (talk) 14:25, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  Done. {{der3}} doesn't like line breaks. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:30, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:senseid with preceding spaces edit

A lot of entries use {{senseid}} without any spaces between it and the preceding #. This doesn't agree with our formatting, so I wonder if this is actually necessary. If it is, what can be done to change this? —CodeCat 18:54, 9 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I removed a zero width whitespace which caused MW to put a space after it.--217.147.224.66 08:09, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but that doesn't answer my question... —CodeCat 12:22, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"group=" parameter in tables edit

If no one objects, I'm going to rename the group parameter to the actual word that is being translated in tables, because I believe it's a little clearer this way, since basically every other parameter is the direct translation:

For instance, in Template:table:chess pieces/pt:

  • Current state:
{{table:chess pieces|lang=pt
|group={{l-self|pt|peça|peças}} de {{l-self|pt|xadrez}}
|pawn={{l-self|pt|peão}}
|knight={{l-self|pt|cavalo}}
|bishop={{l-self|pt|bispo}}
|rook={{l-self|pt|torre}}
|queen={{l-self|pt|rainha}}, {{l-self|pt|dama}}
|king={{l-self|pt|rei}}
}}<noinclude>{{table doc}}</noinclude>
  • Proposed state (the line 2 changes):
{{table:chess pieces|lang=pt
|chess pieces={{l-self|pt|peça|peças}} de {{l-self|pt|xadrez}}
|pawn={{l-self|pt|peão}}
|knight={{l-self|pt|cavalo}}
|bishop={{l-self|pt|bispo}}
|rook={{l-self|pt|torre}}
|queen={{l-self|pt|rainha}}, {{l-self|pt|dama}}
|king={{l-self|pt|rei}}
}}<noinclude>{{table doc}}</noinclude>

--Daniel Carrero (talk) 19:33, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A good idea, if you can make it work. —CodeCat 19:51, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  Done. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 10:36, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

{{vi-pron}} in Vietnamese napan edit

{{vi-pron}} didn't work very well for napan... that guy 19:43, 10 October 2015 (UTC)}}

I got rid of the module error, but someone who knows Vietnamese should probably double-check that the pronunciation info is correct. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:23, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, thanks, that's the way it's pronounced. that guy 18:23, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Style for quotes and examples of word uses edit

Recently I had an edition reverted (https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=mesmerize&oldid=34546229&diff=prev). Who reverted it explained why it should be reverted, there is no question about that.

My discussion here is because I think this way to quote the use of words, followed by an example (but not quote) for this same word, without a visual sign or mark that something separate from the quote started it bad. If we use a list mark for the quote, we must use it for the separate things that come. The indent used makes the example start to the right of the "." for the quote is, which will make us naturally think the two are part of something.

Further, when the quote contains two or more poetry lines, we will not be able to (easily) tell, by looking at it, when the poetry ended and when the example started.

So, I think that examples should be numbered or marked with something visual (like "." or numbers) besides formatting it differently.

Just put the examples above the book citations (or, better, replace them with proper citations). Equinox ◑ 19:09, 11 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Categories with invalid label edit

I made Category:en:Cities in Australia not too long ago. Is there a way to fix this "Categories with invalid label" error? --KoreanQuoter (talk) 11:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"SoFixIt", as they say in some wikis. How are your Lua/Scribunto skills? The problem is somewhere in Module:category tree. Don't be discouraged that the module is in Category:Templates and modules with outdated documentation. DCDuring TALK 16:18, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about? The documentation is right there at {{poscatboiler}}. —CodeCat 17:01, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that User:Daniel Carrero split the place names sub-module, which made most of the links in the place name categories go to the wrong module (someone will have to do null edits on them to correct that), so the usual method doesn't work. Chuck Entz (talk) 17:35, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That is not correct. The problem is that "cities of Australia" was not in the list of labels supported by {{topic cat}}. The same error will happen if you try using any other unlisted label. It is true that I split the place names sub-module, because the list was getting too long in my opinion, still this didn't break any categories that were working before the split. I see that you fixed the problem with Category:en:Cities in Australia by adding the label properly. (diff) Adding the label works regardless of the actual subpage you used, it could be Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names or Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names old or any other. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 19:03, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but if you try to find the appropriate submodule by clicking on the edit link in, say, Category:en:Cities in Switzerland, you end up at Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names, which is the wrong module. At first glance, it looks like all the non-Brazilian information has been deleted. Searching through the data submodules can be very confusing and time-consuming if you're not familiar with how they're arranged, so the edit link is a very useful feature. Having it go to the wrong place can make a simple task very difficult. It's easy enough to force the link to update by doing a null edit on the categories that use Module:category tree/topic cat/data/Place names old, but that's rather tedious without a bot, or at least AWB- and first you have to realize there's a problem. I pinged you on this because I wanted to make you aware of the problem, not to criticize you. Chuck Entz (talk) 19:25, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Effectively we have an unelected technocracy that controls labels and many other aspects of Wiktionary. The current, technocratically protected system is is a major reversion from the flexible, learn-from-users system that existed before the "reform" of the {{context}} system. The former system showed no errors when the context label was not on the approved list, standardized labels when warranted, and added labels based on user choice. By comparison, the current system seems Stalinist, designed to exclude user input. I realize that the former flexible system may have been to much for the skills available when Lua arrived, but I would have thought that enough learning had taken place so that the weaknesses (presumably not intentional) of the existing system could be corrected. DCDuring TALK 20:30, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The current system is at least as flexible as what we had, since it had to be backwards compatible. Just because you can't be arsed to learn how it works, doesn't mean we should all revert back to the old, convoluted template system. —CodeCat 20:50, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is only flexible in the sense that the illuminati can, when they choose, allow new labels. The previous system allowed all new labels offered by users. The more potentially controversial standardization was offered for review. DCDuring TALK 23:44, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about? You can create labels whenever you want to, just like in the old system. —CodeCat 23:54, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
For now, Category:en:Cities in Australia uses {{topic cat}}, which invokes Module:category tree, which is in Category:Templates and modules with outdated documentation. DCDuring TALK 17:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why should a topical category have been governed by something related to parts of speech ("pos") anyway? DCDuring TALK 17:41, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Fine, {{topic cat}} then. It's still the same. —CodeCat 17:46, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The documentation is rather intimidating for those who don't know anything about modules, and finding anything in the submodules isn't easy. It's normally possible to talk people through adding things by having them go to a related category, click on the edit link, copypaste the code for the related category into the correct place for the new code and change the details- except for the problem I mentioned above. At any rate, I added the category to the module, once I realized what was going on. Chuck Entz (talk) 17:51, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you're welcome to improve the documentation if you can. —CodeCat 17:52, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why don't those who perpetrated the templates and modules document their own work. If they aren't willing to do so, why don't they play elsewhere. DCDuring TALK 20:30, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why don't you come up with a more constructive comment, instead of whining about it all the time? You complain, but you never change anything nor propose any concrete changes. If you're not prepared to put in the work, don't complain about those who do. —CodeCat 20:49, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I repeat my constructive suggestion: "Why don't those who perpetrated the templates and modules document their own work." Presumably they know it best and are aware of the expressed user need and of the possible need for subsequent modification. I think it is the height of irresponsible amateurism to radically "reform" our technical infrastructure often according to individual whim and fail to document those reforms, let alone seek some kind of permission to impose regression of capability. DCDuring TALK 23:44, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There has been no regressive capability, and the new system is documented better than the old system ever was. You are talking through your hat. Also, "perpetrated" is not constructive. —CodeCat 23:54, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you fixing the category. And while at it, can somebody fix Category:en:Cities in Spain, Category:en:Cities in Canada, and Category:en:Cities in United States of America? Thank you in advance. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 07:53, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  Done, but I moved the US category from Category:en:Cities in United States of America to Category:en:Cities in the United States of America: for the US, we use "the" when the country name is in running text, but not otherwise (the parent category is Category:en:United States of America). Chuck Entz (talk) 13:36, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

German declension and conjugation templates edit

Hello, I need some help with fixing some of the declension and conjugation templates used for German verbs and nouns.
I've just created Spesen and as you can see in the declension table the dative form is incorrect. Could somebody please fix this by adding a parameter to omit an -n in dative for pluralia tantum? Thanks in advance.
As to verbs: yesterday I've created werweissen and in the second person singular indicative there needs to be an -s- omitted, so that the form be identical to the third person singular and second person plural indicative. And there needs to be additional parameters in all of the conjugation templates for defective verb forms used impersonally such as ereignen (→ see wikt:de:ereignen), geschehen (→ see wikt:de:geschehen), etc. These verbs normally only occur in the 3rd person singular, in the past participle and in the infinitive form. Some other of these defective verbs can be used in the 1st, 2nd, etc. person BUT only in the figurative sense (regnen, schneien, etc.). However, in these entries the conjugation should also be corrected since I think an usage note would do as well to discribe the figurative usage. — Best wishes, Caligari ƆɐƀïиϠႵ 18:01, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed the dative plural of Spesen and the second person singular of werweissen. The other problem is beyond me. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 21:49, 12 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much. — Best wishes, Caligari ƆɐƀïиϠႵ 14:38, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

redlink on Special:Book edit

Special:Book contains a redlink to Help:Book which has been deleted. A Certain Lack of Grandeur (talk) 18:53, 13 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Strange behaviour on szó edit

On this page, there is this line: 

; Expressions:

On first glance, this seems rather obvious: a definition term tag ";" followed by some text, ending with a colon. But as you can see in the actual page, the software sees it rather differently, as the colon is omitted. The mwparserfromhell parser that MewBot uses also parsed it differently; it treated the colon as a definition data/indentation tag, as if the colon was at the start of a line. I'm going to guess that mwparserfromhell is treating it correctly, and that this specific bit of Wikitext is actually equivalent to: 

; Expressions
:

Which is clearly not what was intended. There are probably quite a few instances of this on pages, which would presumably need to be found and fixed.

Another question we could ask is whether the ; should even ever be in entries. In most cases where I saw it, it was used (abused?) to create bold text, but there are better ways of doing that. —CodeCat 13:12, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If someone can provide me a list of such Hungarian entries, I'd be glad to correct it. --Panda10 (talk) 13:29, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not just Hungarian entries, though. So far, I've come across:
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. —CodeCat 13:39, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is the standard interpretation of ; [...] : in MediaWiki; see [1] and observe how ; item : definition renders there. The semicolon is supposed to introduce a definition list; the first colon in a line that starts with a semicolon is interpreted as a new line starting with a colon. If that's not the behavior we want, we need to write the page differently. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 15:43, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I corrected the Hungarian entries. I used a list from an old database dump. --Panda10 (talk) 17:08, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

template:lt-noun (Lithuanian nouns) edit

Hi — Lithuanian noun declensions are identified in a way very similar to Latin, as reflected in the template, thus I suggest modifying this to include the Genitive (instead of the plural), the declension type/class (I–V), or maybe both. — Ivadon (talk) 14:49, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Abuse filter triggered on quism edit

@Kephir The abuse filter is triggering on this page, saying that there is an interwiki link to a page whose name is different from the current page. The page itself contains [[doi:, which is not an interwiki link, but the abuse filter thinks it is. Can this be fixed? —CodeCat 18:03, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It seems we need a list of explicit exceptions and add the code doi to it. --WikiTiki89 20:40, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Although doi is a valid language code and theoretically could have a Wiktionary in the future. I wonder what WikiMedia will do with the doi prefix if that happens. --WikiTiki89 20:42, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps capitalise it "DOI"? Equinox ◑ 20:42, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, they do have a Wikipedia in the incubator that uses the code dgo. --WikiTiki89 20:44, 16 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So, can anyone fix this? The filter may have to be disabled otherwise. —CodeCat 22:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why isn't "equestrianism" a recognized topic label? edit

There is a topic category "equestrianism" and I want to use this in a Russian word, but writing {{lb|ru|sports|equestrianism}} doesn't add the word to Category:ru:Equestrianism. There's no current Russian category for equestrianism but that didn't seem to be a problem with e.g. the topic category "carpentry", which automatically put a term into Category:ru:Carpentry even though that category didn't exist at the time. I can't see anything in the source code that triggers these topic labels. Benwing2 (talk) 19:24, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There was no data for that label in Module:labels/data. DTLHS (talk) 19:33, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'm a bit surprised that the code doesn't automatically recognize topic categories as labels. Benwing2 (talk) 20:33, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. DCDuring TALK 21:12, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Generic equivalent of inh and bor? edit

I like {{inh}} and {{bor}} but they don't cover all cases involving {{etyl|FOO|BAR}} {{m|BAR|BAZ}}. Can someone (e.g. CodeCat) create such a thing (if it doesn't already exist)? Benwing2 (talk) 19:27, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The generic equivalent is just to use {{etyl}} and {{m}}. —CodeCat 19:55, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Benwing2 I have been thinking of creating an alternative template to {{etyl}}, one which does what you say. I'm not sure what to call it though. Since the template is for generic "derived from" categories, maybe something like {{der}} or {{deriv}} would work. The latter name is already in use though, and the former might be confused with {{der3}}. If all else fails, {{etyl2}} is also an option, but not a good one. —CodeCat 13:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, You could call it {{dfr}} (= "derived from") or some variant, or {{etm}} or {{em}} (= "etymological mention", a combination of {{etyl}} and {{m}}). {{em}} doesn't seem bad to me as it reads like a variant of {{m}}, which it is. Benwing2 (talk) 13:37, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I renamed {{deriv}} to {{derivsee}}, to make it match {{suffixsee}} better. So now {{deriv}} is also an option. I am still partial to using {{der}} for the shortcut though, and {{derived}} as the full name. This matches {{inherited}} and {{borrowed}}. And {{der}} is also one letter shorter than {{etyl}}, which will probably please people who are picky about every letter they have to type. —CodeCat 13:47, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a problem with {{der}}. Benwing2 (talk) 01:05, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Another possibility is {{ety}}. Benwing2 (talk) 01:06, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
BTW thank you for putting the languages in the more logical order in {{inh}} and {{bor}}. I always get confused by the order of {{etyl}}. Benwing2 (talk) 01:07, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I've now created {{der}} and {{derived}}. I haven't written documentation yet, but it works the same as {{inh}}. —CodeCat 13:34, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. One thing I noticed is that it doesn't accept - as the first language, which would be equivalent to {{etyl|FOO|-}} {{m|FOO|BAR}}. Benwing2 (talk) 22:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That was intentional, as such usage doesn't actually indicate any derivation but just shows a Wikipedia link. I didn't think it was fitting. —CodeCat 23:18, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps we should then have {{cog}} (cognate) or {{cf}}. --WikiTiki89 23:59, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Or just a generic template for including the language name with a link, without saying if it's a cognate. —CodeCat 00:02, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That's what I meant, but the template could still be named {{cog}} or {{cf}}. After all, {{l}}/{{link}} is not only used for "linking". --WikiTiki89 00:27, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:catfix not working for some categories edit

(Notifying Yair rand, Dixtosa): The template {{topic cat}} calls {{catfix}}, so you'd expect entries in a category to be language-tagged and linked to the proper section. But in Category:nl:Cities in the Netherlands, this isn't being done. I also noticed that it's not working in any of the other "cities in" categories. But there is no problem with Category:nl:Capital cities. Does anyone with JavaScript knowledge have any ideas? —CodeCat 21:59, 17 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

{{catfix}} works only when the first argument it expects (i.e. language code) is passed. In the {{topic cat}} it is not passed if it is invoked without the language parameter. --Dixtosa (talk) 09:38, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That is kind of obvious now that you said it. It means that we'll have to integrate {{catfix}} into the modules, so that it can be called once the module has extracted the language from the category name. —CodeCat 13:25, 18 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why is my edit being flagged as spam please help edit

why am I not able to save edits, this was what I wrote

==English==
===Muslim by Choice===
{{head|en|muslim by choice}}
# A person born in a non-muslim family who accepts Islam as his/her religion out of personal choice
# The term was coined by a blogger named Ali, for new members of the muslim society who are generally referred to as reverts or converts. In order to honour their Choice and sentiments.
#*'''2015''', Ali, ''Tafsir-i-Ali Journey of a Muslim by Choice'', http://tafsiriali.com, page: Neither a Convert nor a Revert, I am simply a muslim by choice
#*:I appeal to all that please do not call us converts or reverts we are simply "Muslims by choice".
====Synonyms====
* {{sense|}} {{l|en|Revert}}, {{l|en|convert}}

— This unsigned comment was added by Tafsiriali (talk • contribs).

You probably were tagged because you were a new editor posting a link to an outside web page, which is the way most spammers and spambots operate- and really, you shouldn't need to post a link.
Please read our Criteria for inclusion: if it's not attested in use independently at least three time times in durably-archived sources over a span of more than a year, you shouldn't create an entry for it. We can temporarily set aside the "more than a year" part if it looks like it will be met eventually, but web sites aren't durably archived.
We're a descriptive dictionary: we document how language is actually used, not how people would like it to be. Whether a newly-coined term is good, bad or really, really bad (the last is by far the most common), we won't be interested in it until it's caught on and in use by people not connected to the original coiner. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:55, 19 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, "Muslim by choice" is SOP so we shouldn't have it as an entry.​—msh210℠ (talk) 14:48, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

complicated new template finally released after hours of work edit

Hi there. I've been working hard over the last few days creating a new template for invariable Spanish adjectives. It's at Template:es-adj-inv, and if anyone can improve it, I'd appreciate it. It's still got bugs in it, despite weeks of fiddling and improving. Perhaps it should be somehow merged into Template:es-adj, although such a feat of merging would be epically difficult. I hope my months of creating this template will pay off, and it'll widely used by all Spanish editors. --Zo3rWer (talk) 14:24, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It would be a shame to put years of coding to waste. --Zo3rWer (talk) 14:24, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You expect Spaniards to use something this complicated?! WurdSnatcher (talk) 14:30, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I agree; it needs a documentation subpage (Template:es-adj-inv/documentation) to illustrate how to use it. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 14:52, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Template:term - omitting the 1st parameter and the lang= parameter too? edit

Just a note: It seems people have been omitting the 1st parameter in {{term}} to generate italicized text without a link.

Example:

  • {{term||example|lang=en}} returns: example

This usage is not documented. Is it acceptable? If the answer is yes, then I am going to document that use.

Even so, I've seen that there's people omitting the lang= parameter in this case, presumably because there's no link in the first place, but this could be problematic because of "the proper script and formatting conventions for the language in question", as the documentation puts it. The omission of language code causes the entry to be categorized into Category:term cleanup, regardless of existence (thus linking) or omission (thus unlinking) of the 1st parameter.

I've found this because I'm currently in the process of cleaning up Category:term cleanup manually per this discussion, so I guess the best course of action is adding the correct language codes even to unlinked entries as I mentioned, for the reasons above. See this diff. Feel free to discuss. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 19:32, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's exactly what I do too, so I'm hoping it's right. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 20:32, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there are multiple reasons why language codes are useful even when there is no link. --WikiTiki89 20:59, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In the entry Bart, what should be the language code used here? 

from West Germanic *{{term||bardha}}

--Daniel Carrero (talk) 22:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any reason to use the term template in this case? DTLHS (talk) 22:15, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have a code for Proto-West Germanic; in such cases you can probably use und. However, in this case, I'd rather just leave that step out since there's no consensus among linguists as to whether there ever was a "Proto-West Germanic", and there's no harm in saying the OHG word comes straight from PGmc. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:18, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Proto-West-Germanic is (or should be) considered a dialect of Proto-Germanic. So use the code "gem-pro". --WikiTiki89 22:40, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've found another odd case: the entry Canuck, in the collapsible Etymology text: 

or another Canadian Aboriginal ending like {{term||-uc}}, {{term||-uq}}, or {{term||-oc}}
has also been thought to come from Iroquoian {{term|Canuchasa||hut}}

Since there it no proto-language, I am going to use "und" for those. Feel free to discuss or propose something different. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 23:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm confused -- why would anyone use {{term}} when there is no such term to link to, nor indeed any language-specific formatting (since there is no language identified)? In the Canuck etymology example, the Canadian Aboriginal endings are only italicized. Shouldn't these just use ''...''? Inserting the template produces longer wikicode, and increases the server load (albeit marginally) by requiring the template call. These are both negatives, as I currently understand it.
Could someone explain the use case here? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 00:03, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Should I just convert these cases into ''...''? That'd be fine by me. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:07, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If they're mentions of words, then it's still useful to tag them as such. I'm not a fan of reverting to raw, meaningless wikicode. —CodeCat 00:17, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Come to think of it, CodeCat is right, italic is just the standard formatting for terms in Latin script, which people can change on their accounts by editing Special:MyPage/common.css. If we reverted terms into raw, meaningless text, we would lose that functionality. Also, there's the possibility of changing the standard formatting into something else in the future.
For that reason, if there's no better idea, I'm going to continue using lang=und when there's no proto-language code I could use; that is, I'm not going to convert them into raw text. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 02:24, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • @CodeCat: I agree with the idea of semantically tagging term mentions. My comment above was prompted in part by concerns I've read about here in the past, where too many calls to templates can cause problems on the server side.
Is that not an issue for {{term}}? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 22:02, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Pages typically transclude linking templates dozens or even hundreds of times, when you consider how many uses of {{t}} are in a typical translation table. {{m}}/{{term}} is about equal in terms of resource usage. —CodeCat 22:04, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

io-adj for Category of Ido Lemmas edit

{{io-adj}} ought to be updated to include Category:Ido lemmas. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 17:35, 22 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Preventing Name-Category Stupidity From a Certain IP User edit

We've been getting a lot of edits from time to time that consist of:

  1. Adding "English xyz names from <language>" categories to entries that have nothing that says that they're names derived from that language
  2. Creating entries that consist of very little beyond the unformatted headword and a name category.
  3. Creating name categories without any usable content, or not following our naming schemes.

These edits aren't random: they're all the work of IPs that geolocate to Charter Communications in w:Livingston, Tennessee (except for 199.187.205.21, which geolocates to Twin Lakes Telephone Co-op in neighboring w:Cookeville, Tennessee). As to whoever is doing this:

I think we need to come up with one or more edit filters to stop these edits. To start with, we could disallow categories containing "English" and "names" which are added to mainspace entries not containing "==English" and "===Proper noun", or something along those lines. Also, maybe disallow mainspace entry creations that have the same characteristics that fail the "no L2-L3" filter, but also have a name category in them. Another possibility would be disallowing certain types of edits made by IPs within the ranges of the IPs above (they all seem to be varying only within the last 8 bits). I don't know if we can catch all their bad edits, but I think we can disrupt their editing so badly that they'll be forced to either quit or to learn about our requirements. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:30, 23 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Neger edit

The entry has a rather presriptive point of view (Wiktionary:Tea_room/2015/September#neger, néger) and unjustifiedly got 'closed' from editing:

"You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason: [note: no reason is given]
This page has been protected to prevent editing or other actions."

So, please 'unclose' it. (If needed, e.g. in case of too much vandalism, it could be changed into an entry which IP users can't edit, but I guess that's not needed.) -Rdm571 (talk) 12:52, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The page was protected by an admin, which is a policy matter, not a technical issue- so this doesn't belong here. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:35, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It can't be added - IMHO that's a technical issue. Anyway, where does it belong? -Rdm571 (talk) 14:28, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The Tea Room is the place to discuss changes to specific words or entries. (The Beer Parlour would be the place to make a general discussion about protection policy.) What changes do you think should be made to the entry? I protected it because of the number of drive-by edits, without discussion, by IPs and new users who claimed it was an unoffensive modern word, which materially misleads readers since references agree that the word is, in fact, dated and offensive and discriminatory. - -sche (discuss) 16:33, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
0. One IP user who made an misleading edit referred to Duden. Duden changed their site recently (e.g. they added an English-German dictionary). So, it's not easy to judge whether the IP was right or not. At least Duden could have irritated and mislead the user. E.g. in case of Idiot Duden states in the lead "Gebrauch: umgangssprachlich abwertend", and in case of Depp Duden states next to the meaning: "([...] abwertend)". In case of Neger this is not present. Only further below there is a longer note ("Besonderer Hinweis").
1. I doubt that a block is justified. It's common practice to edit without discussing every change, e.g. you didn't discuss your edit with the comment "someone incorrectly removed this context label back in February" too. (From February to September there were no objections, so one could call the edit from February "consensus", can't one?) If there was an edited war then it could be blocked temporarily, or if there was IP user vandalism then it could be blocked for IP users. But blocking it in general and because of that reason?
2. The protection note should give a reason or some useful link where to discuss the entry. In the current form it rather looks like "This entry shall have my POV and I don't want this entry to be changed, thus as I'm an admin I block it".
3. As you wrote, you don't like to add references. So the lack of references for the old usage notes prior to 24 October 2015 shouldn't be dealed with blocking the entry and changing the notes, but rather by a discussion or an unblocked entry which asks users to add references (like with a comment in the usage note section: <!-- Please add references for any statements made -->).
4. A reference you added isn't always neutral: Duden is known for changing "problematic" words. E.g. at Duden it is "googeln: mit Google im Internet suchen, recherchieren" (searching with Google). That might be the literal and original meaning. But the actual meaning often is "searching with a search engine". Even newspapers mentioned this change, e.g. Focus: Markenschutz: Google ließ Duden-Eintrag ändern. Anyway, Duden says something different than the current usage notes. Usage notes: "In modern speech, Neger [...]". Duden: "im öffentlichen Sprachgebrauch". That is, Duden does not say that Neger is always a "bad" word nowadays, and "im öffentlichen Sprachgebrauch" might very well be "were politcal correctness is in force".
5. The old usage notes were unsourced, but anyway they should be correct. In case of the first part, "used to be OK", it should be possible to add sources. Though, it's not as easy as adding the 'political correct' sources: If a word is "bad", then dictionaries usually tell so. If a word is not "bad", then dictionaries usually don't tell anything like "this word is neutral and not 'bad'". So, older dictionaries could be considered sources for the neutral meaning, as they don't have a note like "this word is bad" and as a meaning like "black person" isn't "bad" per se. As one could reject that, one could add many examples with a neutral (or maybe even positive) meaning. Possible examples could be scientifical, philosophical or political texts (e.g. if they are from Marxists demanding equality) or children's books (like Pippi Langstrumpf). Also products like "Negerkuß" should convey a neutral meaning: If Neger would be "bad", it would be very likely that they would have less sales, thus the company should have used a neutral or positive word. B-Tight's "Neger Neger" should even be a positive - even though it's racists - example from the 21st century. Also, even "GRA" ("Stiftung gegen Rassismus und Antisemitismus" - actuall not a neutral source) states: "Vordergründig war Neger ein neutraler Begriff."
6. "(now dated and derogatory, ethnic slur) negro, black: nigger". That's kind of misleading as it rather sounds like "Neger" always meant and means "nigger" and always was an ethnic slur. Even GRA states: "im englischen Sprachraum [wurden] die Begriffe «Negro» als «neutrale» Bezeichnung und «Nigger» als rassistisches Schimpfwort gebraucht." - that is, English negro was neutral and nigger "bad". So, it's most likely more appropriate to have two meanings in the entry "Neger": 1. (now dated) negro; 2. (derogatory) nigger". That could also make more sense considering synonyms: "Nigger" is a synonym of sense two, not of sense one, and "Mohr" is a synonym of sense one, not of sense two. Though it could be that not all synonms can be splitted like that.
7. "Synonyms: [...] Farbiger, Afrodeutscher". That aren't synonyms, at least in the strict sense of the word.
  • Farbiger is a hypernym refering to all non-whites, e.g. it can also refer to yellows or Asians.
  • Besides Afrodeutscher there are many more Afro- terms like Afroamerikaner. So Afrodeutscher can at best be a hyponym with a meaning like "Neger living/born in Germany".
8. If one is pedantic, than the meaning "black" and the synonym "Schwarzer" aren't synonyms too, at least not always. In older lexica (early 20th century) one can find explanations like this: "Neger, weiße, am Albinismus (s. d.) leidende Neger." That is: not all Neger are black, some are whites (albinos). Of course, this could also be an own meaning, like "1. (refering to phenotype) black person; 2. (refering to genotype) negro". Then Obama could be a Neger in sense one, as he is 'black', but wouldn't be a Neger in sense two, as he is only 'half-black'.
9. It's doubtful, that "Negerant" is derived from "Neger". The German Wiktionary gives another explanation, and so does the German Wikipedia ("neger (Adjektiv)").
10. There are more derived terms and hyponyms: Albino-Neger, Negerbrauch, Neger-Englisch/Negerenglisch, Negerfrau, Neger-Holländisch/Negerholländisch, Negerjunge, Negerkind, Negerkultur, Negermädchen, Negersprache, ...; maybe also (rarely) Negerpsyche.
Now also posted a link to this discussion on the entry's talk page, the information desk and the tea room - did I miss anything?
-Rdm571 (talk) 22:39, 27 October 2015 (UTC) and 18:04, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Asterisk (*) - inside or outside {{m}} edit

See this diff.

I changed this: 

*{{term||disfidare|renounce one's faith}}

Into this: 

{{m|la||*disfidare|renounce one's faith}}

I.e., when I edit the {{m}} in entries to add the language code, I am also moving the asterisk inside the template as part of the word.

Rationale: Arguably, I suppose it is "part" of the word as I said. Moreover, with reconstructed languages, if you try to type "*{{m|gem-pro|stīganą}}" it generates an error because there's no asterisk within the template, making you rewrite this as "{{m|gem-pro|*stīganą}}", so using the asterisk always is a way of making the whole system more consistent.

Also, hypothetically, if we decide to use our CSS pages to format the terms differently (example: making the terms appear bigger, or bold, or with a different color, for some reason), I suppose it makes sense formatting the asterisk together with the rest of the word. I am using CSS myself to spot uses of {{term}} without language codes and I find it a bit weird having the asterisk singled out, without any of the special formatting that appers to me. (as per User:Daniel Carrero/vector.css)

Feel free to discuss if I should do it differently. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 17:04, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Putting the asterisk inside makes it link to the appendix. Since unattested words should be in the appendix, the asterisk should be on the inside. However, another question might be whether the asterisk should be inside or outside the generated link, but I have no opinion about that. --WikiTiki89 18:59, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A page does not appear in some categories. edit

The page vodorovnost should appear in Category:Czech compound words, Category:Czech words interfixed with -o- (because of the coumpound template) and Category:Czech words suffixed with -ost (added manually). These categories appear at the bottom of the page, but the page does not appear in the categories. What could be the problem? Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:57, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes it takes a while for the software to update the categories. This should resolve itself soon. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:01, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I know, but this seems different, because a) it is already 3 days after the categories were added, b) categories which I added to some other pages later than these were updated immediately. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:08, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes it helps if you go to the entry, mouse over "More", and select "Null edit"; then go to the category page, mouse over "More", and select "Purge". —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:16, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
When I mouse over "more", I get just one choice: move. There is no choice of Null edit or Purge. Perhaps only admins have this feature enabled. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:23, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You can also click edit and save the page without changing anything. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:26, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I see, thanks for a good advice.
Now I also see that the categories are updated, perhaps because you have purged it - thanks! I do not understand, why this page had to be purged while others not, but I am happy it is OK now. Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:28, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
My guess is that when you saved the page the WM servers were overloaded and the update to the categories’ cache didn’t follow through, even though the changes to the page did. Very rarely this happens to pages’ caches as well. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:44, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(e/c) Purging often does not work, but null edits work. If there is no option to do a null edit, just do one manually (i.e. edit and save the page with no changes). Being there after three days is not concerning, categories sometimes take months to update and in some cases never get updated until the pages are edited. The developers don't seem to want to do anything about this. --WikiTiki89 22:28, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Linking to Wikipedia on one's profile edit

I tried to link to my Wikipedia profile so as not to repeat myself. It is disallowed by this overzealous grease pit daemon: 

Check out my Wikipedia profile.

-> 

Warning: This action has been automatically identified as harmful.
Unconstructive edits will be quickly reverted,...

Zezen (talk) 22:46, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I added the text above to your page. — Ungoliant (falai) 22:48, 26 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, it works now. Wiktionary users can bug me there, too, about my edits. Zezen (talk) 01:21, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Two ways of avoiding the abuse filter that flagged your edit: make some edits (the filter blocks very new users from adding external links, because they're usually spam), or use a wikilink (like that) rather than an external link. - -sche (discuss) 04:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with {{l}} edit

pos= does not work when the parameter contains a hyphen. See in Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/keh₂-, with pos=ye-present. This used to work before. --Vahag (talk) 09:45, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly, even changing the hyphen to &#45; doesn't fix it. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It’s because the page Template:pos ye-present has been created, but doesn’t do anything. — Ungoliant (falai) 12:23, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@DCDuring, why did you create that template? --Vahag (talk) 13:14, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like an attempt to reduce the overload in Special:WantedTemplates, but that strategy leads to problems like this when templates can take the names of other templates as parameters and use ifexist-type logic to weed out non-existent ones. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:16, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Chuck is correct. I have long thought that the practice depending on "wanted" templates was evil. But "wanted pages" is no longer being updated anyway, so there's no point.
If we want similar results we need to process the dump. The first thing would be to process the dump to aggregate missing terms of a given language used in {{m}}, {{l}}, and {{term}} and any descendants or variants. The more extensive processing of all linked terms to get the true equivalent of wanted pages is more tedious. DCDuring TALK 16:49, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I added some content to the page; it’s working now.
Anyway, the current POS-markup system reminds me of the maintenance nightmare that the standalone context templates were. Maybe we should rework it into a data module. — Ungoliant (falai) 14:22, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but I wonder if we even need the extra logic in this case. —CodeCat 14:34, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hindi IPA edit

I made some mess with with Hindi IPA module and test cases, can someone please take a look if I haven't caused any issues? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:25, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I got the test to work, but it’s failing. — Ungoliant (falai) 02:47, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:10, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

AutoWikiBrowser: Username "MglovesfunBot" already exists edit

I have a new computer and I'm trying to log into to AWB but I'm getting the 'error' message 'Username "MglovesfunBot" already exists'. Err yes, I used to be able to access my account from more than one computer, but apparently not now? Why (out of curiosity) and what do I do about it? Surely there has to be something more practical than creating a second bot account. Renard Migrant (talk) 15:48, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You might get more feedback on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser --Malyacko (talk) 11:48, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Reducing wanted categories edit

Should we have a catboiler for categories of the form "FOO-ish BAR-ish", e.g. "German English" or "Mecklenburgisch Low German"?

Also what about Category:pt:Municipalities in Portugal with 304 members? Benwing2 (talk) 20:53, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why do we need a boiler? Just create the category and manually place it under Category:Regional English or Category:Regional Low German. --WikiTiki89 21:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are enough of these categories that I think it's useful to have a catboiler to standardize the way that they're expressed. Benwing2 (talk) 00:44, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I've always thought of doing that catboiler but never got around to it.
Did a mockup: {{dialectboiler}}. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 04:59, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, thanks. Benwing2 (talk) 05:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed the use of the first parameter.
BTW what the hell is "German Low German"? That looks awful. And we have the even more awful Category:Mecklenburgisch German Low German as the supposed "correct" category in place of Category:Mecklenburgisch Low German. Benwing2 (talk) 06:51, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To Chrome users edit

What's the best way to enter various symbols of YOUR OWN choice - diacritics, IPA symbols, letters that are missing on a keyboard? In Firefox it's easy - I use the character panel plug-in where I use multiple panels for accents, foreign letters. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:33, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mac or PC? On a Mac it's easy using either the "Show Character Viewer" in the keyboard/input-method dropdown in the upper right, or CTRL-CMD-SPACE, which brings up a "recent characters" menu from which you can select arbitrary new characters to put in the menu. Benwing2 (talk) 05:28, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
PC, I don't normally use Mac. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 05:37, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, only way I know of entering symbols of your own choice on PC's is either to create your own keyboard layout or do it the "hard way" using ALT+number pad. But it looks like there are Chrome plug-ins called "Special characters" and "Google input tools" that might help. Benwing2 (talk) 06:58, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Search your PC for the "Character Map". That should work for you. —Stephen (Talk) 07:24, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the suggestions. Specifically, I'm looking for stress marks - acute and grave accents, Arabic diacritics. I don't find the above tools easy to use for that. At work, I have to use Chrome and IE most of the time. Firefox is better with linguistic plug-ins but I would then use Firefox only for Wiktionary edits. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:32, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Back in the day when I used PC's, I created some PC keyboard layouts to make Arabic diacritics easy to input -- a/i/u were used for short vowels, w/y and maybe e for long vowels, o for sukūn, maybe semicolon for shadda. I can share those with you if you want. For Russian acute/grave accents your best bet is to create a keyboard layout -- it's not too hard using the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator. Benwing2 (talk) 07:59, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Arabic diacritics are all on the default Arabic keyboard. But beyond that, the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator is very useful. If you create a keyboard, you can use it in any application at all. I created my own Arabic keyboard to be able to enter Persian and other languages' characters. I also created a Russian keyboard that includes all of the diacritics, letters from other Slavic Cyrillic languages, and all the pre-reform and OCS characters. I have done this for several other languages as well. If you want, I can email you my keyboard source files and/or installation packages. --WikiTiki89 15:25, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikitiki89 Thanks, I've emailed you my request (I don't know if your other email is still valid). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:23, 1 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not much, but for acute accents on the vowels you can use AltGr + vowel (if your keyboard has that key, and possibly depending on your system locale; it works in en-GB). Equinox ◑ 11:15, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks all, I'll look into these options. With a Firefox "Character Palette" plug-in, though, I add symbols to clipboard by simply clicking on a panel in the same browser tab. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 13:31, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

suffixcat/prefixcat -- would be nice if they could infer the suffix automatically edit

@CodeCat Actually it would be even nicer if they could infer both the language and the suffix. This shouldn't be so hard, I imagine ... There are a zillion wanted categories of the form "FOO words suffixed with -BAR" and "FOO words prefixed with -BAR" and it would definitely speed up creating them if I didn't have to search for the correct language code for each language mentioned and cut and paste the suffix/prefix. Benwing2 (talk) 06:54, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

BTW I'm aware that some categories might need extra parameters (accent marks, translit, etc.) but most won't. Benwing2 (talk) 06:55, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This has been done now, both the language and the affix are autodetected. The part of speech (which may replace "word") is not autodetected, though, because it's not possible (theoretically) to tell where the language name ends and the part of speech begins. {{poscatboiler}} doesn't autodetect the language for the same reason, it can't tell where to separate the two, unless one of them is given. I could change it so that the language needs to be specified, but then the part of speech could be autodetected. —CodeCat 01:35, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you!!! This is awesome. Benwing2 (talk) 10:06, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hindi templates (modules) edit

User:Aryamanarora has been adding some new Hindi lemmas and it seems Hindi templates need some enhancements. E.g. nouns need pluralia tantum - g=p is not supported or should {{head|hi|noun|g=p}} be used? Proper nouns need genders as well. There could be some other new things required or good to have, like feminine parameter forms for both nouns and adjectives, plural forms, etc. माता-पिता (mātā-pitā) uses a non-standard template. @Aryamanarora, sometimes it's worth asking around for a better way, don't struggle on your own. :) Perhaps an existing headword module could be taken as a base for Hindi? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 13:27, 31 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A term like मेहमान (mehmān) should go to Category:Hindi nouns with multiple genders. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:43, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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