討論

See also: 讨论

Chinese

		ask for; send punitive expedition; to demand ask for; send punitive expedition; to demand; to marry	to talk (about); to discuss; theory to talk (about); to discuss; theory; by the; per; the Analects (of Confucius)
trad. (討論)		討	論
simp. (讨论)		讨	论

Pronunciation

• Mandarin

  (Pinyin): tǎolùn

  (Zhuyin): ㄊㄠˇ ㄌㄨㄣˋ

• Cantonese (Jyutping): tou² leon⁶
• Hakka (Sixian, PFS): thó-lun
• Eastern Min (BUC): tō̤-lâung
• Southern Min

  (Hokkien, POJ): thó-lūn

  (Teochew, Peng'im): to² lung⁶

• Wu (Shanghai, Wugniu): ⁵thau-len

---

• Mandarin
  • (Standard Chinese)⁺
    • Hanyu Pinyin: tǎolùn
    • Zhuyin: ㄊㄠˇ ㄌㄨㄣˋ
    • Tongyong Pinyin: tǎolùn
    • Wade–Giles: tʻao³-lun⁴
    • Yale: tǎu-lwùn
    • Gwoyeu Romatzyh: taoluenn
    • Palladius: таолунь (taolunʹ)
    • Sinological IPA ^(key): /tʰɑʊ̯²¹⁴⁻²¹ lu̯ən⁵¹/
• Cantonese
  • (Standard Cantonese, Guangzhou–Hong Kong)⁺
    • Jyutping: tou² leon⁶
    • Yale: tóu leuhn
    • Cantonese Pinyin: tou² loen⁶
    • Guangdong Romanization: tou² lên⁶
    • Sinological IPA ^(key): /tʰou̯³⁵ lɵn²²/
• Hakka
  • (Sixian, incl. Miaoli and Meinong)
    • Pha̍k-fa-sṳ: thó-lun
    • Hakka Romanization System: to` lun
    • Hagfa Pinyim: to³ lun⁴
    • Sinological IPA: /tʰo³¹ lun⁵⁵/
• Eastern Min
  • (Fuzhou)
    • Bàng-uâ-cê: tō̤-lâung
    • Sinological IPA ^(key): /tʰo³³⁻⁵⁵ l̃ɑuŋ²⁴²/
• Southern Min
  • (Hokkien)
    • Pe̍h-ōe-jī: thó-lūn
    • Tâi-lô: thó-lūn
    • Phofsit Daibuun: toylun
    • IPA (Xiamen): /tʰo⁵³⁻⁴⁴ lun²²/
    • IPA (Quanzhou): /tʰo⁵⁵⁴⁻²⁴ lun⁴¹/
    • IPA (Zhangzhou): /tʰo⁵³⁻⁴⁴ lun²²/
    • IPA (Taipei): /tʰo⁵³⁻⁴⁴ lun³³/
    • IPA (Kaohsiung): /tʰɤ⁴¹⁻⁴⁴ lun³³/
  • (Teochew)
    • Peng'im: to² lung⁶
    • Pe̍h-ōe-jī-like: thó lŭng
    • Sinological IPA ^(key): /tʰo⁵²⁻³⁵ luŋ³⁵/
• Wu
  • (Northern: Shanghai)
    • Wugniu: ⁵thau-len
    • MiniDict: thau^去 len
    • Wiktionary Romanisation (Shanghai): ²thau-len
    • Sinological IPA (Shanghai): /tʰɔ³³ lən⁴⁴/

---

• Middle Chinese: thawX lwon|lwonH

Rime
Character	討	論	論
Reading #	1/1	2/3	3/3
Initial (聲)	透 (6)	來 (37)	來 (37)
Final (韻)	豪 (89)	魂 (55)	魂 (55)
Tone (調)	Rising (X)	Level (Ø)	Departing (H)
Openness (開合)	Open	Closed	Closed
Division (等)	I	I	I
Fanqie	他浩切	盧昆切	盧困切
Baxter	thawX	lwon	lwonH
Reconstructions
Zhengzhang Shangfang	/tʰɑuX/	/luən/	/luənH/
Pan Wuyun	/tʰɑuX/	/luon/	/luonH/
Shao Rongfen	/tʰɑuX/	/luən/	/luənH/
Edwin Pulleyblank	/tʰawX/	/lwən/	/lwənH/
Li Rong	/tʰɑuX/	/luən/	/luənH/
Wang Li	/tʰɑuX/	/luən/	/luənH/
Bernard Karlgren	/tʰɑuX/	/luən/	/luənH/
Expected Mandarin Reflex	tǎo	lún	lùn
Expected Cantonese Reflex	tou2	leon4	leon6

• Old Chinese

  (Baxter–Sagart): /*[t]ʰˤuʔ  [r]ˤu[n]|[r]ˤu[n]-s/

  (Zhengzhang): /*tʰuːʔ  ruːn|ruːns/

Baxter–Sagart system 1.1 (2014)
Character	討	論	論
Reading #	1/1	2/3	3/3
Modern Beijing (Pinyin)	tǎo	lún	lùn
Middle Chinese	‹ thawX ›	‹ lwon ›	‹ lwonH ›
Old Chinese	/*[t]ʰˁuʔ/	/*[r]ˁu[n]/	/*[r]ˁu[n]-s/
English	examine; denounce	discuss, examine	discussion, discourse
Notes for Old Chinese notations in the Baxter–Sagart system: * Parentheses "()" indicate uncertain presence; * Square brackets "[]" indicate uncertain identity, e.g. *[t] as coda may in fact be *-t or *-p; * Angle brackets "<>" indicate infix; * Hyphen "-" indicates morpheme boundary; * Period "." indicates syllable boundary.

Zhengzhang system (2003)
Character	討	論	論
Reading #	1/1	1/3	2/3
No.	12374	8649	8656
Phonetic component	討	侖	侖
Rime group	幽	文	文
Rime subdivision	1	2	2
Corresponding MC rime	討	論	論
Old Chinese	/*tʰuːʔ/	/*ruːn/	/*ruːns/
Notes	疑肘聲

Verb

討論

1. to discuss; to talk over

   你可以參與他們的討論。 [MSC, trad.]
   你可以参与他们的讨论。 [MSC, simp.]

   Nǐ kěyǐ cānyù tāmen de tǎolùn. [Pinyin]

   You can join in their discussion.

   他們詳細討論了這件事，結果達成諒解。 [MSC, trad.]
   他们详细讨论了这件事，结果达成谅解。 [MSC, simp.]

   Tāmen xiángxì tǎolùn le zhè jiàn shì, jiéguǒ dáchéng liàngjiě. [Pinyin]

   They discussed the matter in detail, and finally came to an understanding.

   這個討論還是由你來主持。 [MSC, trad.]
   这个讨论还是由你来主持。 [MSC, simp.]

   Zhège tǎolùn háishì yóu nǐ lái zhǔchí. [Pinyin]

   You had better host this discussion.

2. (literary, of texts) to edit critically; to examine and rectify a text

   • 子曰：「為命：裨諶草創之，世叔討論之，行人子羽修飾之，東里子產潤色之。」 [Classical Chinese, trad.]
     子曰：「为命：裨谌草创之，世叔讨论之，行人子羽修饰之，东里子产润色之。」 [Classical Chinese, simp.]

     From: The Analects of Confucius, c. 475 – 221 BCE, translated based on James Legge's version

     Zǐyuē: “Wéi mìng: Píchén cǎochuàng zhī, Shìshū tǎolùn zhī, xíngrén Zǐyǔ xiūshì zhī, Dōnglǐ Zǐchǎn rùnsè zhī.” [Pinyin]

     The Master said, "In preparing the governmental notifications, Pi Chen first made the rough draft; Shi Shu examined and discussed its contents; Zi Yu, the manager of foreign intercourse, then polished the style; and, finally, Zi Chan of Dong Li gave it the proper elegance and finish."

   • 討論墳典，斷自唐虞以下訖於周。 [Classical Chinese, trad.]
     讨论坟典，断自唐虞以下讫于周。 [Classical Chinese, simp.]

     From: c. 4th century, "Pseudo-Kong Anguo" (偽孔安國), Preface to the Book of Documents (《尚書序》). English translation based on the text by James Legge (1879).

     Tǎolùn Fén Diǎn, duàn zì Tángyú yǐ xià qì yú Zhōu. [Pinyin]

     [He] examined and arranged the old literary monuments and records, deciding to commence with Tang and Yu, and to come down to the times of Zhou.

3. (literary) to study; to investigate; to research

   • 如討論之，乃虛妄也。 [Classical Chinese, trad.]
     如讨论之，乃虚妄也。 [Classical Chinese, simp.]

     From: Wang Chong, Lun Heng (Discussive Weighing), 80 CE, translated based on Alfred Forke's version

     Rú tǎolùn zhī, nǎi xūwàng yě. [Pinyin]

     But if we get to the bottom of it, we find that all this is illusive.

Synonyms

• (to discuss):

• 交涉 (jiāoshè)
• 傾／倾 (king¹) (Cantonese, informal)
• 協商／协商 (xiéshāng)
• 協議／协议 (xiéyì)
• 口語／口语 (kǒuyǔ) (archaic)
• 商榷 (shāngquè) (chiefly in an academic context)
• 商討／商讨 (shāngtǎo)
• 商談／商谈 (shāngtán)
• 商議／商议 (shāngyì)
• 商量 (shāngliang)
• 接接 (Hokkien)
• 接洽 (jiēqià) (formal)
• 會談／会谈 (huìtán)
• 槌摃鐵／槌𫼱铁 (Hokkien)
• 比接 (Xiamen Hokkien, Zhangzhou Hokkien)
• 洽商 (qiàshāng)
• 洽談／洽谈 (qiàtán)
• 申論／申论 (shēnlùn)
• 研究 (yánjiū)
• 磋商 (cuōshāng) (formal)
• 磋議／磋议 (cuōyì)
• 磨合 (móhé) (figurative)
• 觸牙／触牙 (Hokkien)
• 言說／言说 (yánshuō) (formal)
• 言論／言论 (yánlùn)
• 言辭／言辞 (yáncí) (literary)
• 計謀／计谋 (jìmóu) (literary)
• 計議／计议 (jìyì) (literary)
• 計較／计较
• 評／评 (píng) (literary, or in compounds)
• 評論／评论 (pínglùn)
• 說／说
• 說合／说合 (shuōhé)
• 談判／谈判 (tánpàn)
• 談論／谈论 (tánlùn)
• 謀慮／谋虑 (móulǜ) (literary)
• 議／议 (yì)
• 議論／议论 (yìlùn)
• 錦議／锦议 (Hokkien)
• 闡論／阐论 (chǎnlùn) (literary)

 

Derived terms

• 研討／研讨 (yántǎo)
• 討論區／讨论区 (tǎolùnqū)
• 討論會／讨论会 (tǎolùnhuì)
• 討論稿／讨论稿 (tǎolùngǎo)

 

Related terms

• 暢談／畅谈 (chàngtán)
• 聊天 (liáotiān)

Descendants

Sino-Xenic (討論):

• → Japanese: 討論(とうろん) (tōron)
• → Korean: 토론(討論) (toron)
• → Vietnamese: thảo luận (討論)

Japanese

Kanji in this term
討	論
とう Grade: 6	ろん Grade: 6
on'yomi

Pronunciation

• (Tokyo) とーろん [tóꜜòròǹ] (Atamadaka – [1])
• IPA^(key): [to̞ːɾõ̞ɴ]

Noun

討(とう)論(ろん) • (tōron) 

1. debate
2. discussion

Synonyms

• (debate): ディベート (dibēto), 議(ぎ)論(ろん) (giron), 論(ろん)争(そう) (ronsō)
• (discussion): 論(ろん)議(ぎ) (rongi)

Verb

討(とう)論(ろん)する • (tōron suru) suru (stem 討(とう)論(ろん)し (tōron shi), past 討(とう)論(ろん)した (tōron shita))

1. to debate
2. to discuss

Conjugation

Conjugation of "討論する" (See Appendix:Japanese verbs.)

Katsuyōkei ("stem forms")
Mizenkei ("imperfective")	討論し	とうろんし	tōron shi
Ren’yōkei ("continuative")	討論し	とうろんし	tōron shi
Shūshikei ("terminal")	討論する	とうろんする	tōron suru
Rentaikei ("attributive")	討論する	とうろんする	tōron suru
Kateikei ("hypothetical")	討論すれ	とうろんすれ	tōron sure
Meireikei ("imperative")	討論せよ¹ 討論しろ²	とうろんせよ¹ とうろんしろ²	tōron seyo¹ tōron shiro²
Key constructions
Passive	討論される	とうろんされる	tōron sareru
Causative	討論させる 討論さす	とうろんさせる とうろんさす	tōron saseru tōron sasu
Potential	討論できる	とうろんできる	tōron dekiru
Volitional	討論しよう	とうろんしよう	tōron shiyō
Negative	討論しない	とうろんしない	tōron shinai
Negative continuative	討論せず	とうろんせず	tōron sezu
Formal	討論します	とうろんします	tōron shimasu
Perfective	討論した	とうろんした	tōron shita
Conjunctive	討論して	とうろんして	tōron shite
Hypothetical conditional	討論すれば	とうろんすれば	tōron sureba
¹ Written imperative ² Spoken imperative

Synonyms

• (discuss): 話(はな)し合(あ)う (hanashiau)

References

• 2002, Ineko Kondō; Fumi Takano; Mary E Althaus; et. al., Shogakukan Progressive Japanese-English Dictionary, Third Edition, Tokyo: Shōgakukan, →ISBN.

Korean

Hanja in this term
討	論

Noun

討論 • (toron) (hangeul 토론)

1. hanja form^? of 토론 (“debate, controversy”)

Vietnamese

chữ Hán Nôm in this term
討	論

Verb

討論

1. chữ Hán form of thảo luận (“to discuss”).